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14 Apr 2003 : Column 630—continued
Mr. Boris Johnson (Henley): Given that Iraq is now free, thanks to the heroic efforts of the coalition forces, does the Prime Minister think that any of the tens of thousands of members of Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party could have a legitimate claim to asylum in this country?
The Prime Minister: I know of no applications that have been received and I doubt that any would be welcome.
Mr. Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley): Will the Prime Minister confirm or deny that the coalition has a plan to sell off nationalised Iraqi oil to the highest bidder?
The Prime Minister: I do not know of that plan. The plan that we have is to ensure that the Iraqi interim
authority takes control of the oil wealth of Iraq as soon as possible. The great thing is that as the new interim authority comes into being, sanctions can be lifted and the Iraqi people can therefore have the prospect of future prosperity. The appalling situation, which is necessary at the moment because of what Saddam did to his country, in which 60 per cent. of the population are dependent on vouchers for food aid could be ended. It is a question not of selling off Iraqi oil to the highest bidder, but of ensuring that the substantial wealth is used not for palaces, a power elite at the top or weapons of mass destruction, but for the Iraqi people.
Tony Baldry (Banbury): No one can doubt the Prime Minister's commitment to the United Nations, but neither can those of us who are instinctive supporters of the United Nations be insensitive to the haemorrhaging of its support in Washington and elsewhere. Does he believe that that can be remedied with a change of attitude by France, China and Russia, or is he suggesting that more fundamental reform of the UN is required if it is to command universal respect again?
The Prime Minister: There are issues to do with how the UN works and operates, and some of those will take a long time to resolve. They are well known—membership of the Security Council and so on—but unless the leading countries in the world come to some sense of how we handle similar situations in future, the UN will be ineffective because there will be no agreement between the leading countries. In the end, that is what we have to work on. In particular, the international community—especially Europe—has a fundamental question to resolve: do we want Europe and other countries to develop as a rival to the United States or do we want to work in partnership with it? If it is the former, I do not think that we will resolve such disputes in the UN because there will be the same disagreement that there has always been, as there was in the days of the cold war when the UN often could not work properly because there were two blocs of power that would not support each other's strategic interests. The only way in which we are going to make the UN more effective is by resolving some of those underlying political questions, and that political question in particular.
Mr. Clive Soley (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush): Further to that answer, is it not true that part of the rebuilding process requires the UN to take a hard look at how it deals with states that have developed weapons of mass destruction, are brutalising their own people and are destabilising the region, therefore making the middle east, in many respects, the cockpit of violence for so many years? Part of that reassessment must be an ability to deal with—let us face it—psychopathic killers who take over nation states, destabilise the area and kill their own people. We are not dealing with that because the UN was initially set up for a different purpose. The world has changed and we now need to change the UN.
The Prime Minister: The point that my hon. Friend makes is right in the sense that such states pose a real threat. However, there are different ways to deal with them. In some circumstances, we can enter into a dialogue with those countries and help them out of the
situation that they are in. One thing is clear: the continuation of brutally repressive regimes, allied to weapons of mass destruction, is a threat. That is why we have to deal with them and why the UN has to come together to do that in a concerted way.
Mr. Andrew Tyrie (Chichester): Three times the Prime Minister has been asked about Syria, in response to which he has said that there are no plans to deploy force against Syria. The trouble is that that phrase has been used by the Prime Minister and many others in other contexts just before they have done exactly the opposite—for example, the Prime Minister said, "I have no plans to raise taxes at all." Can the Prime Minister find more forceful language to allay the concerns of the conspiracy theorists?
The Prime Minister: Let us not get into manifesto commitments on tax, which were very clear. I think that I have made the position clear enough. If people continue to raise that issue, it can only be because they are not listening to the very clear answer that is being given. I have given that answer throughout our proceedings today and give it again now: we have absolutely no plans whatsoever to invade Syria. I cannot put it any clearer than that. It is clear enough, I think, for most people. What is important is to recognise that no one on the other side of the water, so far as I am concerned, has said that there are such plans. We are in a situation in which I am asked about the latest conspiracy theory. Once it has been laid to rest, I have no doubt that will be replaced by the next one, as I said.
Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield): May I say to my right hon. Friend that I have listened to what he said and have no reason to doubt his sincerity in relation to Syria? However, many of us are deeply troubled by some statements on Syria that have been made by sources around the Pentagon, and sometimes by people in the Pentagon itself and the White House. If we are to win Syria's co-operation for a middle east peace and its confidence in becoming a full member of that part of the world, would not it be better for the United States to be a bit more unambiguous and to acknowledge to Syria that we have some concern about the fact that parts of its territory have been occupied illegally since 1967?
The Prime Minister: The best way to resolve that is through a reinvigorated middle east peace process that deals with the Syrian track as well. I have engaged in a dialogue with Syria and its President over the past few months precisely to try, through partnership, to deal with the issues of concern in respect of Syria. I hope and believe that we can deal with them in that way.
After the debate about whether Syria is harbouring regime figures—to be fair, the president has made it clear that it is not—and when we get the middle east peace process back under way, it will be important for Syria and other countries in the region to stop any support for terrorist groups whose aim is to disrupt the very peace process that everyone wants.
Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk): In joining in the Prime Minister's tribute to our armed forces, may I particularly flag up the bravery and professionalism of the aircrew, ground crew and airmen
based in Norfolk? Many will be coming home shortly, but others will be staying in the Gulf for many months. Do they not deserve a tax rebate and a council tax rebate? Ironically, they would get the latter if they were in prison.
The Prime Minister: We apply the same rules that we have applied throughout. I pay tribute to the families of servicemen and women from Norfolk and elsewhere in the country. This must have been a deeply anxious time for them—it still is—and our thoughts should be with them. We are working to make sure that we bring servicemen and women back home as soon as possible.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley): May I confirm what my right hon. Friend said at the beginning of his statement? I know from conversations with Iraqis inside and outside the country that there is great rejoicing at the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and they are extremely grateful for the role that my right hon. Friend played. As he knows, the immediate needs of the Iraqi people are food, water, electricity and sanitation, and I hope that work on those can proceed very quickly.
I had a telephone call from an Iraqi woman who has lived in this country for many years. She asked me about information concerning the occupants of a certain prison. I asked her who she knew in the prison, and she said, "An uncle." I asked her how long he had been there and she said, "Twenty-eight years." We are short on information about what has happened to the occupants of those prisons, particularly notorious ones such as the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, and I wonder whether my right hon. Friend could obtain some of that information for the 4 million Iraqi exiles throughout the world who will have had relatives in many of those prisons.
The Prime Minister: First, it is right to record our thanks to my hon. Friend, who has fought an extraordinary and sometimes lonely campaign to bring home to people the true nature of Saddam's regime.
As the situation becomes more stable, we are trying to turn our attention to issues such as the prisons. My understanding is that some of them are deep underground, and there are still problems, particularly around Baghdad, in finding their exact location. We are working very hard on that, and I hope that in the next
few days we will have greater progress to report. My hon. Friend is right to say that there are many people in the diaspora throughout the world who will be anxious for news of their relatives. I only hope that in the coming weeks we will be able to provide that information.
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