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Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order.
Dawn Primarolo: What is important to my right hon. Friend and all hon. Members is that those who have applied for the tax credits and are entitled to receive payments should receive them on time so that they may depend on the money. As I explained, 3.2 million people have been paid or are about to be paid. The other applications that we have received will be dealt with by the end of next week. Interim payments are available for families that experience difficulties that may be due to late payment, which I deeply regret. We shall continue to make such interim payments available when necessary. This is a huge system that is delivering support to families for the first time. If Opposition parties had any say, that support would not have been available in the first place. There were 3 million families in poverty when the Conservative party left government. That does not show that it is interested in the hardships that families face.
Alistair Burt (North-East Bedfordshire): As somebody who has some sympathy for the Minister and finds her position today eerily familiar, may I ask why basic lessons were not learned from past administrative problems? Governments always seem to promise too much too soon and pressures seem to be far beyond what is anticipated, although history shows the pressures that could have been expected. One of my constituents, who applied on 18 December, has still not heard what her award is. She knows that she has an award but found out that when it was made notification was not automatically sent. She has no evidence to show
that she is in receipt of the new benefit, which debars her from such things as free prescriptions. If lessons had been learned from the past, surely there would have been a slower approach and the Minister would not be in the position that she is today.
Dawn Primarolo: We looked at the lessons of the past. For example, there was only a 50 per cent. take-up of family credit when it started, and we have far exceeded that. I shall not go back through the experience of the Child Support Agency, which I am sure is engrained on the hon. Gentleman's memory.
Dawn Primarolo: For ever, as the hon. Gentleman says.
I have tried to explain that a huge number of families are receiving or are about to receive their money. The number of claims received is 4 million and rising. Every hon. Member has said that the priority is to get the money to families when they expect it, and that is our objective.
Mr. Paul Tyler (North Cornwall): Will the Minister assure us that she has listened to the complaints and concerns expressed by Members on both sides of the House—not just today, but for weeks—about the delivery of the new credits and, in particular, the communications system, specifically the shambolic implementation of the hotline for MPs and the helpline for members of the public? As the former Minister, the hon. Member for North-East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), said, surely the lessons should have been learned. When something of such complexity is introduced, it is important that members of the public and MPs can get information on it. Otherwise, a logjam builds up, as it has, and the situation gets worse. Will the Treasury give an undertaking that a lesson has been learned and that if a similar credit is introduced in future—perhaps for pensions—a fully manned system will be in place to provide information to the public and MPs?
Dawn Primarolo: The helpline has been in existence since last August and has functioned well all that time. As I explained, at its peak, 2 million calls a day were made to the call centre. In response, we assigned 700 more staff to deal with the calls. I assure the hon. Gentleman that not only do I listen carefully to what Members of Parliament say about their experiences, but I give specific consideration to what families tell us about their experiences. That is why I continue to set the priority that payment must be delivered on time, that interim payments must be available if that cannot be done, and that the claims that were received by 31 January are processed through the system. We aim to ensure that all claims received by last Friday will be completed by next week. It is an important system that provides support to families. As the most radical reform since the introduction of the Beveridge reforms, I am briefed on it daily and take note of what needs to be done to ensure success.
Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (West Derbyshire): Given the fact that, as the system has been so well introduced, we are all exaggerating the problems, will the Minister
respond directly to a couple of complaints that I have received, which must, it seems, be unusual? One lady agreed her award but was not told how much it would be. She moved house during the process and, because the system could not match her details, failed security checks and will not receive anything for some time. Another lady has been told that because she applied online the forms will take a lot longer to process and her claim will take longer to sort out. Another lady has been told that her records have been "partially captured". Perhaps that has something to do with recent events, but I do not know what it means, and neither does my office. As so few cases are going wrong according to the Minister, would she mind if I gave those people the number of her private office for them to use as their helpline?
Dawn Primarolo: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and the rest of the House will celebrate the fact that 3.2 million people are receiving or are about to receive payment, in addition to the 1.3 million. Online applications should not take longer and should be processed at the same speed as other applications. Hon. Members have implored me to prioritise payment to those who are paid weekly and those who received the working families tax credit or the disabled person's tax credit, and that is what is happening. We are also clearing the claims that we have received, which as of last Friday stood at some 4 million.
It is not the case that claimants will be unable to access passporting benefits because their exemption covers them until 31 July or that claimants will not receive information from the Inland Revenue. All hon. Members will accept that the information that is received on the applications needs to be correct, verified and cross-checked with the system. That has to proceed, as it always has, and we will do it as quickly as possible.
Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch): Are not people who pay their tax late or send in their tax return late fined? Is it not typical of the Government that when they have an obligation to pay a tax credit, they refuse to offer compensation? Will the Minister compensate my constituent who spent five days on the telephone trying to get through to the helpline? As she failed to do so, she went to the tax office in Bournemouth, where she had to queue before eventually being given a giro for £540. She had to take the day off work and leave her four children at home to be looked after by someone else. That tax office has now told her that the £540 giro will not be reclaimed or set against other income that she receives. Is that the bribe to compensate people, or will the £540 have to be repaid if she gets a payment through the bank?
Dawn Primarolo: Interim payments are made in circumstances in which families have not received the payment on the date that they requested or, in some cases, if they have elected to change from four-weekly payments to weekly. The interim payment is made to ensure that a family does not experience any difficulties. That has always been the policy. It has been clearly explained throughout and I did that again today.
On the fines for non-payment of tax, the hon. Gentleman knows that people who submit self-assessment forms pay their tax later than those who are
part of the pay-as-you-earn system. They are given a date on which to pay the tax, which is a considerable time after anyone else. Those penalties were introduced by a Government of whom he was a member.
Mr. James Paice (South-East Cambridgeshire): Is it not astonishing that although the Minister has kept so closely in touch with everything that has gone on, she does not seem to appreciate the anger and distress that we have all encountered on doorstep after doorstep and in letter, e-mail and phone call over the past three weeks? Does she not understand that countless people got their applications in before 31 January but have heard nothing? They do not know whether they will get any money, let alone whether it might arrive this week. It is all very well for her to talk about an interim award, but if people cannot get through on the helpline there is no way in which they can either know about it or apply for it. There are probably 1 million people who are wondering whether they will get any money and when it will arrive. She has said nothing to enlighten them.
Dawn Primarolo: I hope that when the hon. Gentleman is on the doorstep talking to constituents he will explain that he opposed the introduction of tax credits and that had his party had its way they would not be getting the money in the first place. I hope that he and his party explain that to the millions who are receiving or are about to receive payments.
I have explained how the interim payments can be accessed. That information has been made available and will continue to be available so that we support those families who are experiencing genuine hardship if their tax credit has not arrived on time or if their application has been received and we are in the process of dealing with it. It is vital that families get the money to which they are entitled on time. As I said, 3.2 million people—more than under any other system—are receiving or are about to receive that money. Some 1.3 million on income support and JSA received the increased payments. That money, which goes into families' pockets, would have been denied them by Opposition Members.
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