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Mr. Hammond: Will the Minister guide me to the relevant provision for a stand-alone local referendum in the circumstances that he outlined? I believed that the measure provided only for simultaneous local and regional referendums.
2.15 pm
Mr. Raynsford: That is the case but if, for example, a decision in the courts prevented the Secretary of State from proceeding on the basis of a local government ballot, it would be impossible to go further without a second, stand-alone ballot on preferences for forms of unitary local government. If an outcome were challenged because of an allegation of malpractice and the court set aside the unitary local government element, the Secretary of State would have to hold a second ballot. That is the only possible way forward.
Mr. Hammond: I agree with the logic, but will the Secretary of State have such a statutory power? I cannot find it.
Mr. Raynsford: In the case that I outlined, the Secretary of State would act on the outcome of a court decision that set aside the original referendum result. I am advised that holding a second referendum would constitute acting properly. I am further advised that amendment No. 11 to clause 5 provides for that.
Electoral Commission advice recognises that if a local government question is on a separate ballot paper, further explanation will be needed in the preamble. Amendment No. 5 therefore includes two options for the statement that precedes the local government question. Additional text will be needed for the local referendum question once we know the precise options for change that are to be put to voters. Proposed new subsection (2D) of clause 2 provides that the detailed text will given in an order, which will be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. The order must also set out the explanatory material that relates to the local government options and will be made available to voters when they vote, either with their ballot papers or at the polling station. As I said earlier, the explanatory material may include maps or other information that will make it easier for people to understand the proposals.
Amendment No. 5 also provides that the Secretary of State must consult the Electoral Commission on the wording of the text of the options and the explanatory material before he lays the order for the referendum. He must lay a report before Parliament that sets out the commission's views when he presents the order.
Amendments Nos. 15 and 16 would amend clause 8 to ensure that the Electoral Commission could provide information to voters about the arguments on the local government options. As we have made clear, the Government also intend to prepare and distribute a summary of their proposals for local government and elected assemblies before any referendums. We envisage that it will be distributed to every household in the relevant region.
Amendments Nos. 6, 7 and 8 to clause 3 set out the franchise for the local referendums. Those who are entitled to vote in local government elections in the relevant county area will be able to vote on the second question. Those who live in existing unitary areas will not be able to vote on the local government options. We have already covered that.
Amendment No. 11 to clause 5 provides that, in the case of a successful legal challenge to the result of a local government referendum, the Secretary of State could
order a repeat local government referendum. However, a repeat regional referendum would not have to be held at the same time. I hope that that answers the question of the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond). For example, it is possible to envisage a position in which the local government referendum in one county area is successfully challenged but the overall result of the regional referendum is not in doubt. However, the amendment would not allow a repeat regional referendum without local government referendums at the same time. We believe that any doubt about the outcome of one referendum for the whole region must apply to the results of the local government referendums in parts of the region.
Mr. Don Foster : I apologise for intervening on the Minister again. Perhaps I am being extremely stupid, but he has made it very clear that amendment No. 11 allows for the possibility, if a local government decision is set aside by the courts, of a second, independent vote on that issue without it affecting the regional government decision. Will the Minister confirm that he must surely have been wrong when he said earlier that if there had to be a second vote on a local government issue for any other reason, there would have to be a second referendum across the whole region? Surely that is not right, because if it were, he would have been incorrect to tell the right hon. Member for Gateshead, East and Washington, West a few moments ago that the Government were going to ensure that the few would not hold up the views of the majority.
Mr. Raynsford: This illustrates the complexity of trying to bring together the two separate elements. Let me try to set out all the circumstances. In an ideal world, one would expect the results of both referendums to be clear and without problems. In such cases, things would proceed perfectly properly. The outcome of the regional referendum will determine whether there is to be an elected regional assembly and whether there is to be local government reorganisation. The outcome of the second referendum on the unitary level government will determine the outcome for the local government areas affected.
If there were doubt as to the validity of the regional referendum, the whole exercise would have to be replayed. There could be no question of the local government reorganisation element standing; in such circumstances, the whole thing should be replayed. If there were doubt about one of the local government elements—there could well be two, three or four such elements, depending on the number of counties in the area affected—it is possible that there might have to be a re-run, for the reasons that I have outlined, if the courts were to challenge the outcome of one of those local elections. In such a situation, it would be possible to re-run the outcome of that local element without setting aside either the regional result or the results of the local referendums in the other county areas. I hope that that makes it clear for the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Foster: The Minister has described every set of circumstances other than the one about which I specifically asked him. The circumstances to which I am referring are those in which doubts might be cast about the validity of a local government decision in a
particular local government area because, for example, of extremely low turnout. The Minister has said that it might be necessary in such circumstances for that local decision to be re-run, and it is right and proper that that should happen. My question is a simple one. In those circumstances, would there have to be a re-run of the regional government ballot as well? The Minister said earlier that that was the case, yet he told the right hon. Member for Gateshead, East and Washington, West that a small number of people in such a local government area would not be able to thwart the wishes of the majority.
Mr. Raynsford: That is broadly the case, but if there were an effective legal action which halted—
Mr. Beith: The Secretary of State.
Mr. Raynsford: If the Secretary of State had no ability to proceed because the outcome had been challenged, the provision in amendment No. 11 states that he may
- "cause a further referendum to be held"
Mr. Foster: I shall try one last time, then I promise that I shall cease. The Minister is still evading the question. He keeps going back to the legal set-aside that is, as he rightly says, covered by amendment No. 11. Earlier in our deliberations, however, he said that in certain circumstances it would be possible for the Secretary of State to use his discretion, not because of a legal challenge, not to go ahead with a decision taken at local level—for example, because of low turnout. My question is a simple one. In such circumstances, if the Secretary of State were to use his discretion to set aside a local government vote and there had to be a re-run, would there have to be a regional ballot for regional government across the whole region?
Mr. Raynsford: In a situation in which the Secretary of State decided that the ballot was unsatisfactory as a basis to proceed, it would be necessary for the whole process to be re-run. If, however, the outcome in one—or more than one—individual county area of the local government element were challenged at law and overturned, it would be possible to re-run those local components in the referendum as stand-alone elements. That is why there is provision for us to have a re-run of the local component in the referendum without having the whole exercise repeated. But those are the only circumstances in which we would envisage a re-run of those local components.
Mr. Hammond: I would like to make sure that I have understood this. Is the Minister saying that the Secretary of State has no power, other than in a situation of legal challenge, to order a re-run of the local ballot only?
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