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Mr. Speaker: Order. The Opposition Front-Bench spokesman put questions to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. The Opposition must have the courtesy to allow the Secretary of State to reply in his own way.
Mr. Murphy: I labour under the misapprehension that members of the Conservative party agree with the Good Friday agreement. If they did so, they would understand it, but clearly they do not. The agreement sets up an Assembly that is specially designed in order to accommodate trust and confidence among the communities. That is impossible in the present circumstances. Why is it impossible? We could not get the agreement that was required to restore the institutions. We could not get an answer from the IRA that was clear or unambiguous enough to establish trust and confidence between the parties, so it is a pointless exercise to try to establish that institution until we have
tried again. We are saying not that we are cancelling those elections, but that we are deferring them until the autumn so that we can get trust and confidence among the parties in order to ensure that we can restore the institutions of the Executive so that they can have local Ministers and so that Northern Ireland will no longer have direct rule. At the end of the day, this is about the trust and confidence that are necessary, and we have to build them.
Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland): I, too, thank the Secretary of State for allowing me advance sight of the statement. The Liberal Democrats share his disappointment that the IRA, when called upon to make a clear and unambiguous statement renouncing violence, does not seem to have been able to do so.
Since the Good Friday agreement, we have sought to approach Northern Ireland matters on a non-partisan basis and to support the Government where possible. It is therefore with particular regret that we are unable to support this further postponement of the elections. We cannot preach democracy to the paramilitaries while in practice we deny it to the people.
Will the Secretary of State please clarify whether the open and transparent process about which he spoke means that there will be a departure from his practice of conducting talks as a series of bilaterals instead of having round-table talks involving all parties? Might that be done as part of the paragraph 8 review of the agreement? Will the postponement last until a fixed date and not for an indefinite period? We shall judge the Government's Bill when we see it, but I give notice to him that, if it does not include such a date, we will take steps either here or in the other place to ensure that it does so.
Finally, will the Secretary of State tell the House exactly what steps he proposes to take to ensure that the political parties that have been left out of pocket as a result of his decision will be compensated? He must be aware that the most effective way of squeezing smaller and more moderate parties out of the political process in Northern Ireland is to allow them to stand the losses resulting from the Government's stop-go approach to the elections.
Mr. Murphy: It is not a question of the Government stopping and going, but of the process stopping and going. That above all else is what matters. [Interruption.] I do not know why Opposition Members scoff at the idea of the process, because it is the process that is most important; it is not the fact that elections are deferred by a few months that is important, but getting lasting peace in Northern Ireland. Do they think for one second that we would have got the peace that we have had? We have had peace since the Good Friday agreement was reached. Of course we have had peace. Fewer people died as a result of terrorist activities this year than in any other year. At the height of the conflict in Northern Ireland, more than 400 people perished in one year. Of course progress has been made in Northern Ireland in five years and it is entirely wrong to suggest otherwise.
The hon. Gentleman referred to the denial of democracy. What is happening is not a denial of democracy, because it is the postponement of elections until the autumn. That must be taken into account with regard to the fundamental nature of the agreement that set up this particular type of Assembly. I repeat that it is not like assemblies elsewhere. The rules and regulations of the Northern Ireland Assembly are based on ensuring that both communities can live in this particular context.
On the talks themselves, we will have to see in the next few weeks what the parties want. Clearly, that has always been a combination of bilaterals and round-table talks. Frankly, the most successful approach is to ensure that we get the trust and confidence and re-establish agreement on moving into the restored institutions.
On compensation, I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I have today written to all parties in Northern Ireland indicating that the Government will compensate parties for any losses made within the terms of the Representation of the People Acts. That is important.
Mr. Seamus Mallon (Newry and Armagh): The Secretary of State will be aware that there is some concern and doubt about the reasons for the postponement of the election, centring on the notion that there is, or was, a semantic debate over "will" or "should". I happen to believe that there was not such a debate, but the Secretary of State can clarify the matter by stating explicitly that the two Governments made it clear to Sinn Fein from the very beginning of the negotiations, and at every stage throughout them, that the issues dealt with in paragraph 13 of the joint declaration would have to be delivered as an act of completion. If the Secretary of State makes that unequivocal statement on behalf of the two Governments, it can dispel the fear, concern and apprehension that this was a matter of semantics.
I should like the Secretary of State to give an opinion on a hypothetical situation. Had the IRA given a commitment to end the activities specified in paragraph 13 of the joint declaration, does he believe that an election would have been able to proceed as of now?
My third question is this: after at least two suspensions and two postponements of legally called elections, is the Secretary of State convinced that all the blame lies on one side?
Mr. Murphy: I suppose that the blame lies on us all for not producing what should have occurred in the past few months. Having spent seven months trying to establish an agreement to move to a restored institution in Northern Ireland, I am the first to regret, and, indeed, to apologise to the parties in Northern Ireland for the fact that we did not achieve what we wanted to achieve.
My hon. Friend rightly mentions paragraph 13 of the joint declaration, which refers to
- "an immediate, full and permanent cessation of all paramilitary activity".
Mr. David Trimble (Upper Bann): The Government have clearly brought themselves into a situation in which they are open to criticism for their decision, which was made at the last minute and in a rather incoherent way. If they had been thinking more carefully and more clearly about the situation, things would have been better. I have to say also that the Secretary of State has added somewhat to the confusion with some of his comments this evening. Is it not the case that the key issue revolves around suspension; that without genuine acts of completion from the republican movement suspension could not be lifted and the institutions could not resume; and that consequently, without those genuine acts of completion, there was in reality no Assembly and no body that could even meet? It is not a question of whether an Executive could form. As things stood, and as they stand today, is it not the case that the Assembly cannot meet, cannot function and, to all intents and purposes, legally is not there?
The key question is whether there are genuine acts of completion, as defined. Is not it therefore paradoxically good that we can all read the IRA statement and see that it contains no suggestion of an end of paramilitary activity? It does not contain any clear indication of when we will get an equivalent statement to the war being over so that people know that there is a commitment to exclusively peaceful and democratic means. The IRA has clearly failed to respond in the way in which the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon) said that it was told time and again in recent months that it would have to respond.
The Secretary of State reminded us that the key elements of the joint declaration were conditional on acts of completion. However, he introduced a distinction between matters that were to be conditional, such as further normalisation. I associate myself with the comments of the Opposition spokesman on any proposal to dismantle security installations before genuine acts of completion. That was never discussed or agreed by any party. The Secretary of State will confirm that he has introduced a new distinction between normal and abnormal acts of normalisation. We are left wondering into which category dismantling security installations falls.
The joint declaration contains other matters that are not conditional. It would help the public if the Secretary of State clearly stated the precise matters with which the Government will proceed. The comments in the statement are general and will therefore spread some confusion and perhaps alarm. Precision is necessary.
I welcome the Secretary of State's reference to introducing legislation to establish the independent monitoring body. However, will he make it clear that it will contain the new power for Her Majesty's Government to exclude parties from the Northern Ireland Executive? Will the legislation be on the statute book before any resumption of the Assembly so that the
means are available to deal with any continuing paramilitary activity or a party's failure to commit to exclusively peaceful and democratic methods?The Secretary of State claims that the declaration is no longer negotiable. Does that apply to all aspects and details? I am thinking of the considerable detail on Army deployment in the event of normality. The Secretary of State knows that there is anxiety about the locations of particular bases. There will be considerable disappointment if, even in the event of normality, full peace and a return to the pre-1969 position, there are no soldiers in County Armagh.
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