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Mr. Murphy: I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman; nor do I admit to being ashamed or embarrassed about what we had to do. Whether we disagree about the Good Friday agreement and the institutions and systems that it set up, the hon. Gentleman and I would nevertheless agree that devolution for Northern Ireland worked well. He was a Minister in the devolved Administration. I am sure that he would agree also that an Assembly that could not produce an Executive and remain suspended was of no use to anybody.
David Winnick (Walsall, North): Should the republican leadership bother to read some of the exchanges that have taken place tonight, would it not come to the conclusion that by refusing to give the answers that are necessary to both sovereign Governments, the IRA is in effect playing right into the hands of the very people who are dedicated to destroying the Good Friday agreement? Perhaps it would be useful if the IRA and its political allies realised that fact.
Mr. Murphy: I agree. I am not sure whether IRA members are watching the statement on the parliamentary channel this evening, but if they are, I repeat the message that I gave to the House an hour ago: we must have a clear and unambiguous statement with regard to the ending of all paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland. Only then can we proceed successfully with the peace process.
Mrs. Iris Robinson (Strangford): Does the Secretary of State accept that the electoral mandate given to Assembly Members in 1998 has now expired and that parties therefore no longer have the democratic authority to negotiate? Would not it have been better for democracy for the elections to go ahead and to allow new mandates to be given to the parties?
Mr. Murphy: I do not agree that the mandates for negotiation are worthless—far from it. The purpose of negotiations in Northern Ireland is to ensure that all parties, if they so wish, can take part in negotiations and discussions. The hon. Lady knows that my door is always open to members of all parties in Northern Ireland to discuss these issues. In the weeks ahead, I will ensure that all parties in Northern Ireland will have the opportunity to make their points known.
Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead): Those of my constituents who listened to the Secretary of State's
statement tonight will have heard him say that elections have been postponed in Northern Ireland because the IRA has failed to surrender its weapons. They may well ask me whether the simpler and fairer way forward would have been to exclude IRA-Sinn Fein from the electoral process. How would my right hon. Friend help me answer my constituents' question?
Mr. Murphy: My right hon. Friend's constituents' questions would be answered by referring to the agreement made in 1998, which provided for exclusion from the Assembly, by the Assembly itself. That did not happen, but the agreement also said that politics in Northern Ireland should be exclusively peaceful. Exclusively peaceful politics can be achieved only if there is a commitment on the part of parties that are linked to the IRA, within the republican movement, to secure an end to paramilitary activity. That in turn led to the destruction of trust and confidence between the parties in Northern Ireland, and to the suspension of the Assembly. When we have restored trust, we can restore the institutions, and hold our elections.
Mr. Andrew Hunter (Basingstoke): Further to that question, does the Secretary of State not see that there is something fundamentally and morally wrong in a political arrangement that suspends the workings of democratic, devolved government because a terrorist organisation refuses to give up violence? Should there not be an arrangement whereby nationalist and Unionist parties exclusively committed to democracy can resume restored devolved government?
Mr. Murphy: That has to be based, of course, on there being willingness and agreement across the political board that that should occur. I think that, in many ways, there is something particularly immoral about 30 years of conflict in Northern Ireland. Whatever the deficiencies of the Good Friday agreement since it was signed in 1998 and brought into effect, I believe that the world has changed for the better in Northern Ireland. It is much better than in the 30 years that preceded the agreement. I therefore believe that, although all of us deeply regret that we have had to postpone the elections, it would have been much worse to see the process fail.
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South): The Secretary of State has said several times that the agreement cannot be changed. Will he accept that the agreement has been changed, in so far as the An Taoiseach is having a direct role in Northern Ireland's internal affairs, which is contrary to strand 1? Will he also accept that some people were conned into voting for the agreement by promises from the Prime Minister that have not been fulfilled? The Secretary of State will be aware that a famous Ulster actor is starring at the moment in a television series called "Murphy's Law". We in Ireland are never too happy about Murphy's law.
Mr. Murphy: Well, there is no answer to that really, is there? The law that has to reign supreme in Northern Ireland is the one that allows us to have a peaceful Northern Ireland, with stable political institutions. In 1998, people believed that the agreement provided that. No one thought for one second that we would have
complete peace and harmony after 1998—far from it; everybody knew that there was going to be a very bumpy road ahead of us. I suppose that we have hit the biggest bump of the lot during the past number of weeks. However, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman agrees with me that, central to the whole question, is the importance of ensuring that the IRA—and indeed all paramilitary organisations in Northern Ireland—ceases its activities.
Andrew Mackinlay : It is nearly Wednesday. How many sitting days will there be between publication of the Bill to postpone the elections and its Second Reading? Is it intended that all the Bill's stages will be taken in one day, which would be unsatisfactory?
In the great scheme of things, my next question is perhaps unimportant, but the Secretary of State has not spoken about the staff of Members of the Legislative Assembly and the high street offices. What will happen to them, particularly as regards redundancy notices?
Mr. Murphy: The Bill will be published by Thursday, and, so long as the House authorities and the usual channels agree, there will be a day for all stages at the beginning of next week. I know that that may be regarded as unsatisfactory, but my hon. Friend will be aware that in order to fulfil the requirements of ensuring that one election has ended and the other started we have to act within a given time frame.
On my hon. Friend's second question, let me assure him that we are carefully considering the issue of the political parties and their staff, and not least the staff of the Assembly itself, and are looking at how to ensure that the political process continues in Northern Ireland in the months between now and when the elections are held.
Mr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East): Is the Secretary of State not ashamed and embarrassed at coming to the House to defend the cancellation of elections, for cancellation is what it is? Will he explain how he could tell us on Thursday that the elections would be postponed until the autumn but that he has twice in his statement tonight reverted simply to "hoping" that the elections will take place in the autumn? Is it not abundantly clear that he knows well that the conditions that he requires will not be met even in the autumn, and that his attempt was simply intended to save the skins of those Unionists who have supported the Belfast agreement against the wishes of the Unionist community?
Mr. Murphy: No, I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The trust and confidence necessary to re-establish the Assembly, and therefore an Executive, are important. The hon. Gentleman would agree with me—he has not mentioned it—that central to that is an end of paramilitary activity. I understand his frustration and huge disappointment, from his own and his party's point of view, with regard to the postponement of the election, but I am sure that he would agree that there is little point in electing Members to an Assembly that could remain permanently suspended. If he knocked on the doors of his constituency and in other parts of Northern Ireland, the people whom he would ask to vote would ask him the same question.
Mike Gapes (Ilford, South): Five years ago the Belfast agreement was hailed throughout the world as a sign of
hope and reconciliation. What message is sent around the world by the fact that, once again, Sinn Fein is not present in the House to take part in this discussion or from the fact that the rejectionists who were against the agreement still reject it? Meanwhile, the vast majority of people in the civil society of Northern Ireland will welcome my right hon. Friend's commitment to carry on the process of normalisation and hope for the future.
Mr. Murphy: People are, of course, entitled to their own views about the Good Friday agreement. Parties represented in the Chamber—the Democratic Unionist party is one, but not the only one—made their points of view known at the time of the referendum. Since then, other views have been expressed about the agreement, and they will doubtless continue to be expressed. At the end of the day, it is all about ensuring that people have the opportunity to see a possibility of peace ahead of them. I think that people in Northern Ireland have tasted that to a large extent in the last five years, in comparison with the 30 years before that. We must continue to ensure that people continue to have that hope, from whatever part of the community they come.
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