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Mr. Malcolm Savidge (Aberdeen, North): My hon. Friend mentioned Kamal. Am I correct in thinking that Kamal told the UN weapons inspectors that the material had been destroyed by that time?
Mike Gapes: Kamal might have said that, but he also said that the Iraqis had things that the regime had previously denied having. My point is that this was a lying, corrupt, secretive regime. We therefore have to recognise that we need time to find out what has been going on there.
I do not know what has been going on because I am not there and I am not carrying out the inspections, but I believe that even if not one single chemical, biological or nuclear weapon or warhead is found, it was right and justifiable to liberate the people of Iraq from Ba'ath fascist tyranny and terror.
Given the middle east peace process, the stopping of payments to suicide bombers who reject a two-state solution in the middle east, the facilitation of pluralism and democracy throughout the region and the opening
of possibilities for Iraq's oil wealth to be spent not on gold bath taps but on alleviating poverty and providing electricity and water for the Shi'a Arabs and the Kurds in Iraq, we were right. What we did was right, and most of the rest of all this is a distraction.What our Government did in support of the liberation of the people of Iraq is something of which I am proud. We should not apologise. We should say that we did the right thing, as we will be seen to have done in decades to come. Today the liberated Polish people are joining NATO and the European Union. We no longer quibble about whether it was right to go to war in Poland. In the 1930s, 140 Tory MPs lined up with Adolf Hitler in the Anglo-German Fellowship. We do not talk about that now; we forget about it. But the reality of the world today is that sometimes people must admit that they were wrong, and that it was better to do something very painful and difficult than not to act. It was right to liberate Iraq.
3.51 pm
Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): Of course we do not talk about George Lansbury and the Labour party voting for further disarmament in 1935 and 1936 either, so I will not follow up the observations of the hon. Member for Ilford, South (Mike Gapes).
For nine years the Labour party has been led by the Prime Minister; for nine years the party's presentation has been organised by Alastair Campbell. Now it is reaping the whirlwind that it sowed by subordinating the truth to the necessity of conveying the message that the party decided. Seeing the reaping of that whirlwind, I have a sense of schadenfreude. I entirely supported the Government's decisions on Iraq: I think that that policy was correct, and is now being seen to be correct, given the appalling evidence of crimes committed against the Iraqi people by their Government. Our actions, I believe, stand justified at the bar of world opinion. Nevertheless, the idea that we took those actions to defend ourselves against some immediate threat to the United Kingdom from weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is of course palpable nonsense. It was wrong for the Government to put themselves in the position of having to rely on the preamble to a document referring to Iraq's ability to activate weapons of mass destruction that would pose a threat to the UK within 45 minutes.
Mr. MacDonald: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Blunt: I want to develop my point a little further, because it is important.
The case for action against Iraq relates to our action in 1991, when we went to war in the first place to liberate Kuwait. The fact that that action did not proceed to its conclusion with the removal of Saddam Hussein had to do with the fact that we thought he was going to fall anyway. Two thirds of the provinces in Iraq were rebelling, and it was assumed that the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs would do for the regime. We can say now, with the benefit of the knowledge that we now have, that we made an appalling mistake and an appalling misjudgment in not ending the affair in 1991, and removing the regime by whatever means were then necessary.
In 1995 or 1996, Saddam Hussein's sons-in-law produced evidence of a biological weapons programme. Their decision to return to Iraq was extraordinary—
about as extraordinary as the fact that Saddam Hussein did not remove his weapons of mass destruction in the face of the arrival of the inspectors and what was obviously going to happen.
Mr. MacShane: Excellent speech!
Mr. Blunt: I am grateful to the Minister. I support the Government in respect of their action; they are in trouble as a result of the presentation of their reasons for that action. The case for action in Iraq has been sustained since 1991. It was sustained by the evidence of a biological weapons programme. It was sustained in 1998 when the weapons inspectors were thrown out. What were we able to do in 1998? We could only engage in Operation Desert Fox, an emotional spasm of air bombardment to try to have some effect on the weapons of mass destruction capability. Why? Because the United States was not prepared to will the military means to take necessary action to rid the middle east, a vital area of the world, of that appalling regime.
Mr. Bercow: Given that Ministers right up to the Prime Minister knew that Saddam Hussein had had ample opportunity over the years to conceal his weapons of mass destruction, does my hon. Friend not think that there may be many a Minister who now wishes that he had made, in support of the case for military action, the speech that has just been made by the hon. Member for Ilford, South (Mike Gapes), but that the difficulty for the Government is that none of those Ministers did so?
Mr. Blunt: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, who displays his usual perspicacity. I am not sure that Ministers would have wanted to make entirely the same speech as the hon. Member for Ilford, South, but they would have wanted to make elements of it.
Mr. MacShane: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the threat from Iraq
- "arises also because of the violent and aggressive nature of Saddam Hussein's regime. His record of internal repression and external aggression gives rise to unique concerns about the threat he poses"?
Mr. Blunt: Of course I accept that, but then the Government have to embroider the case, as they do with all their other presentations. It may be true that an element of weapons could have been put together within 45 minutes. It would be useful to know the source of the information, and of the assessment that weapons could be put together in 45 minutes. I ask the Minister to publish that at some stage. There cannot be any possible reason for protecting the source.
What was the technical basis of that assessment? It is a precise time. Are we talking about a particular warhead being attached to a missile? [Interruption.] The Minister will be able to make the case when he winds up. What precise technical reasons underlie the assessment that weapons could be put together in 45 minutes? What was the nature of the weapons? Were they biological
weapons, chemical weapons, chemical shells? [Interruption.] The Minister will happily refer to that report in his winding-up speech.In 1998 we could do no more than undertake Operation Desert Fox, because the United States was not prepared to will the necessary military means—to deploy soldiers on the ground—to do what was necessary in the interests of the Iraqi people and of stability in the region, and to deal with the potential threat from weapons of mass destruction in the hands of someone like Saddam Hussein. We were not prepared to do that in 1998—but that changed on 11 September 2001, when addressing the Iraqi issue became a domestic priority in the United States.
I suspect that any UK Government between 1991 and now would have been willing to take the action that has been taken to get rid of Saddam Hussein, in the appropriate circumstances, with the support and willingness of the United States to act. It has plainly been in the interests of the middle east, and of the world, to take the action that we did—but the Government are in trouble now and are on the receiving end of legitimate requests for inquiries, because of the culture of spin that goes right to the heart of what they do.
That was revealed in the attitude of the Prime Minister in responding to a question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Mr. Maude) on the G8 summit. The Prime Minister talked in a flippant way, saying, "That is the business of politics." What Ministers, the Government and Labour Members need to understand is the enormous disservice that has been done to the business of politics by the way in which the Labour party has conducted itself under the leadership of the Prime Minister. The way in which they have presented their attacks on other parties and their twisting of arguments throughout that period have done a disservice to the business of politics.
We have come to the moment when the Prime Minister needs his credibility more than anything else. He has argued for putting British troops into action and for taking military action that, in my judgment, was in the interests of the United Kingdom and of the world. But of course, he does not have that credibility. It has been destroyed by the way in which he and other Ministers—but in particular the Spinmeister himself—have allowed the truth to be twisted and manipulated.
That process continues now. During Prime Minister's questions, the Prime Minister again advanced the canard that the Conservative party is pledged to a 20 per cent. cut in public expenditure. He knows perfectly well that that is not true. If he goes on—
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