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Village Halls (Grants)

Mr. David Cameron accordingly presented a Bill to make provision in relation to grants from the Community Fund for village hall: And the same was read the First time; and ordered to be read a Second time on Friday 11 July, and to be printed [Bill 122].

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Opposition Day

[8th Allotted Day]

European Treaty Referendum

Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): I must inform the House that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister.

1.51 pm

Mr. Michael Ancram (Devizes): I beg to move,

That this House believes that any Treaty providing a constitution for the European Union should only be ratified by Parliament once it has received the consent of the British people, democratically given in a referendum.

This is a straightforward and democratic motion that I hope will win widespread support across the House. It is also a timely motion, as it is being debated on the eve of the national referendum on a referendum that is being conducted by the Daily Mail. [Interruption.] I congratulate the Daily Mail on its initiative, and it is not alone. A referendum is also backed by The Sun, The Daily Telegraph, the Yorkshire Post, The Birmingham Post, The Scotsman and many other newspapers, but, most importantly—as shown in opinion poll after opinion poll—it is massively backed by the British people.

Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead): Let us quickly get back to the mountain heights, rather than the lower hills, of this debate. Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that as most Labour voters are in favour of a referendum, and as there is a slight division between some of our leadership and the rank and file, the best course of action today would be for us to have a good debate and to call for many more debates, but for the right hon. Gentleman not to push the motion to a Division? If we divided on the issue, hon. Members would have to take a position in the early stages of this debate, but I am sure that once their constituents had got hold of them they would change their minds.

Mr. Ancram: I listen with interest to the right hon. Gentleman's comments. The calling of a referendum has been Conservative policy for some six months—[Laughter.] The Foreign Secretary will recall that I announced that call in the House and that he asked me whether it was party policy. It has been our policy for six months, and it remains so. In that light, we will have to consider the comments of the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field). We welcome his Bill, and we hope that the Government will give it a fair wind, so that the House may play a part in ensuring that people have a right to decide on this important issue in due course. We will try to assist him in any way that we can.

Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North): I apologise for missing the right hon. Gentleman's opening remarks. Does he realise that he makes pursuit of the Bill promoted by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field), and sponsored by me and many others, more difficult by turning it into a party political issue, when it can be portrayed—as it was at Prime Minister's Question Time by my right hon. Friend the

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Prime Minister—as a blocking attempt? Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that a wiser course would be the one proposed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead? We could have the debate, which would allow hon. Members and—above all—the Government to think about the issue, so that a policy that is six months old is not made worse by a Government policy that is three months old.

Mr. Ancram: The hon. Gentleman was kind enough to apologise for not being here for my opening remarks. Had he been, he would have realised that I have not mentioned the Government so far, and I agree with him that the matter should—as I said at the beginning of my remarks—win widespread support across the House. The terms of the motion are simple and straightforward. They are as politically neutral as possible, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will reflect on his position when we reach the end of the debate.

I hope that as many people as possible will register their opinion tomorrow, if only to show the Government that the British electorate will not readily be sidelined on major issues that involve the transfer of powers from this country.

Several hon. Members rose—

Mr. Ancram: I shall not give way at the moment, because this debate has been severely curtailed by the Government statement. I must make progress, because several of my hon. Friends wish to take part in the debate. At a time when referendums have become an instrument of our political system, and when popular involvement in decisions has become part of our national culture, it would be wrong for an important decision affecting the future of our country to be taken without reference to the people. We should provide them with the opportunity to choose,

"And then the people will decide".

Those are not my words, but those of the Secretary of State for Wales on the "Today" programme on 27 May when he thought, perhaps unguidedly—until he was required later to unthink—that next year's elections could be used as some sort of surrogate referendum.

The words of the Secretary of State for Wales are important, because they reflect the purpose of this motion, which is to enfranchise the people, not through the European elections but through a referendum. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman, who—I am sad to see—is not in his place today, will have the intellectual integrity to support us in the Lobby later.

What of the Liberal Democrats? I was pleased to hear the right hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell) say that

"If Convention proposals have constitutional implications, there should be a referendum."—[Official Report, 21 May 2003; Vol. 405, c. 1053.]

That sentiment is broadly reflected in the amendment that they have tabled today. Our motion refers to a

"Treaty providing a constitution for the European Union".

It is impossible to see how a constitutional treaty providing a constitution can, by definition, be said not to have constitutional implications. I cannot see how even the Liberal Democrats can, with integrity, avoid supporting our motion today.

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We will be told that when we were in office we did not propose referendums on European matters of constitutional significance—that attack has been made on previous occasions—but was not it John Major who promised a referendum on the single currency? After six years of commitment from this Government, we are still waiting for that referendum.

David Wright (Telford) rose—

Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) rose—

Mr. Ancram: I shall give way to the hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz), because he was Minister for Europe.

Keith Vaz: Why did the right hon. Gentleman not support a referendum on the Maastricht treaty?

Mr. Ancram: I shall come to that point in my own time. I hope that the hon. Gentleman has lifted his eyes higher than The Beano since he last intervened in the debate.

Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (West Derbyshire): There was a chance for people to exercise a view on Maastricht, because it was negotiated before a general election, in which it formed part of the Conservative party's manifesto, and implemented after it.

Mr. Ancram: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. I will address the issue in due course, because it is important, but I am reminded that during the debates on Maastricht the Labour party—including the shadow Cabinet—was not exactly united in its view on the need for a referendum.

We are told that we will still get a referendum on the euro, but we will have to wait and see. All that we are getting at the moment is the Tony and Gordon roadshow—the Government's answer to our ill-fated Eurovision entry Jemini, being ill matched and out of tune. After six years of being told that the single currency was simply an economic decision, with no constitutional significance, suddenly we are told that it has achieved constitutional significance again.

The Prime Minister said in Warsaw on 30 May that

"if we recommend entry to the euro, it would be a step of such economic and constitutional significance that a referendum would be sensible, and right, which is why we have promised one."

The Prime Minister used the phrase "constitutional significance", but what about the Convention? At Question Time today, the Prime Minister said again that he did not believe that the Convention was constitutionally significant, but I ask the question again: if a constitutional treaty providing a constitution for the EU is not of constitutional significance, what on earth is? Surely it would be as sensible and right to have a referendum on the constitution as on the euro?

Mrs. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton): On the Government's judgment about whether joining the euro has constitutional implications, I and many other Opposition Members have questioned Ministers over a

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long period of time about their evaluation and judgment when they determined that there was no constitutional case to answer and that the argument for joining the euro was purely economic. In fact, we demanded that they put the relevant papers in the Library of the House. If the Prime Minister is now saying that there is a constitutional case to answer, should he not place the relevant papers in the Library immediately?

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