| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Post Office Card Accounts
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): We now come to the debate on Post Office card accounts. Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister.
5.1 pm
Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire): I beg to move,
- That this House believes that those Post Office customers who wish to continue receiving their benefits, pension payments and tax credits through the Post Office, following the introduction of ACT in April, should be allowed to do so through a post office card account opened at the counter of a post office or sub-post office; further believes that customers should be offered a genuine choice between the options available, including a post office card account; supports the National Federation of Subpostmasters' call that there should be no administrative obstacles to customers opening a post office card account; notes the importance of post office card accounts to the future financial viability of sub-post offices; and calls upon the Government to ensure that there is a level playing field in the marketing, promotion and advertising of the banking options from all Government departments and agencies, including the Department for Work and Pensions, the Inland Revenue and the Veterans Agency.
The support of nearly 400 Members highlights the seriousness of the issue for millions of our constituents throughout the country. It is right to record that those affected include many of the most vulnerable people in our society—the elderly and infirm and those who rely on what they receive each week at the post office to feed and clothe themselves and their families.
In the past few months, I have received hundreds of letters from people who are desperately worried about the changes. Many elderly constituents are simply not used to the sort of technology that the Government are forcing on them through the changes. Many are not familiar with the world of the PIN number or the plastic card and run their finances on a cash basis. Doubtless that is why so many have continued to collect their pensions at the post office.
Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon): What is the hon. Gentleman's position on pension books? The sort of pensioner whom he describes likes the pension book system and does not understand why it should change. The motion understandably covers Post Office card accounts, but will he clarify whether Conservative Members believe that pensioners should retain the right to collect their pensions with a pension book?
Mr. Heald: We believe that pensioners should be able to collect their pensions by that method or through a simple Post Office card account. Pensioners and other vulnerable people should be able to continue to do as they have been doing—go to their post office, receive the cash and manage their finances in the way in which they
wish. The answer to the question is therefore yes, but I stress that the Post Office card account could have been good, but it has been ruined by Government incompetence.It is clear from evidence to the Select Committee on Trade and Industry that, to many elderly people, it appears as though the scheme is aimed at 86-year-olds but devised by 26-year-olds. It is not appropriate to the audience at which it is directed. Last week, at the Select Committee hearing, the Chairman asked the chief executive of Royal Mail whether it would be unreasonable to direct most of the blame at the Department for Work and Pensions for devising the most awkward and inconvenient way of setting up a Post Office card account. Mr. Mills, the chief executive, replied:
- "It is not too unreasonable, Chairman."
One pensioner wrote to me to describe what had happened when she tried to open a Post Office card account, saying:
- "It was 25 times of trying before I got through to the number . . . As a worker in the Citizens Advice Bureau I am meeting many elderly pensioners who feel very threatened by the whole process . . . Why can't the government have application forms available in Post Offices?"
- "If we just had application forms hanging round the Post Office I can see problems in that this is an account system, the Post Office Card Account, designed just for our customers, the Department for Work and Pensions customers . . . It is not for the general citizenry".
Mr. Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley): In my constituency, the last Crown post office in south-east Northumberland has closed. I asked the Post Office to keep it open for two years while the Post Office card account got off the ground because, although a lot of people were signing up, there were not enough. Many people were finding it complicated, as the hon. Gentleman rightly pointed out, but, given time, there would have been enough of them. The Post Office denied
me those two years, and closed the post office last week. Why should the people of Blyth be loyal to the Post Office, when the Post Office has not been loyal to them?
Mr. Heald: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. As a result of these changes, there will be a drop of something like 40 per cent. in business in post offices across the country, according to the sub-postmasters. The effect of that in loss of footfall will be that many post office products will not be purchased. Furthermore, in a small community, it will not just be the post office that suffers but all the other small shops that rely on people purchasing things after they have been to the post office to obtain their money.
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall): I agree totally that pensioners should be able to use their pension books while they continue to draw their pension. That is basic justice. Does the hon. Gentleman share the concern of pensioners in my constituency about the security issues relating to the card account? Many of them walk to the post office and, I am afraid that, in constituencies such as mine, people are mugged for all sorts of things. They are worried that they will be mugged, that their card will be taken off them and that they will be forced to give the mugger their PIN number. Many elderly people are wary of the security problems involved in the scheme. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government should now say that, whatever the situation, if someone wants to keep on using their pension book, they should be able to do so?
Mr. Heald: I agree with the hon. Lady. Many people who collect their money at the post office are elderly and are not going to be collecting their money for many more years, to be frank. Some of the people who have written to me are in their 90s, and even in these days of good public health, they will be using these services for only a short period. To them, however, it matters greatly that they are able to do so. To have a massive change inflicted upon them at that age really is wrong.
It is difficult to open a Post Office card account. One would have thought that the Government would have made a massive effort to explain the options and to help customers. In fact, many letters went out to customers that did not even refer to the option of a Post Office card account. The advertising started only after the scheme had been implemented.
Mr. Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton): On Friday a sub-postmaster in my constituency told me of complaints that he had received from customers about obstacles that had been placed in the way of opening current accounts. It is hugely burdensome for pensioners to go to all the trouble of opening accounts simply to draw their pensions from the post office, and it is doubly burdensome when obstacles are deliberately placed in their way.
Mr. Heald: Indeed. A pensioner wrote to me saying that, having got through to the helpline, she was subjected to
- "a tirade in favour of bank accounts but I stated that I wanted to keep getting paid in my local post office. The girl on the phone kept telling me it was much more convenient to have it at a bank".
- "A young friend . . . phoned to get more information regarding her child allowance . . . During her call, she was very heavily pressed to use the bank and not the Post Office."
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |