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Mr. Ingram: We could leave in advance of that. When the recce has returned, it will define exactly what is required. We do not yet know the extent of the engineering requirements in the field, and other Departments and non-governmental organisations are there and may be able to undertake some of the tasks. The scale and scope of the operation has not been fully defined, other than that it will take place within a tight parameter. We could leave earlier, although the likelihood is that we will withdraw as the UN reinforcements enter the region.
I welcome the hon. Gentleman's acceptance of what we are doing. I was thrown a wee bit, because we usually get some confusion about whether to support a deployment from the Liberal Democrats—
Mr. Ingram: Well, I think of a recent conflict on which they tried to face both ways. They are now picking and choosing which parts of the world they wish the UK to become involved in, and yet at the same time they say that we have obligations under UN Security Council commitments to seek to do what we can to deal with those issues.
The hon. Gentleman also said that there was a need for more troops. I do not know whether he is asking for more UK troops to become involved—
Mr. Ingram: Well, at least that is clear. I can give him assurances that, as I said in my statement—he had an advance copy of it—other EU and non-EU nations are being spoken to by the French, as the framework nation, to try to assemble a package.
On the rules of engagement, the deployment of our personnel and of the multinational force will take place under chapter VII of the UN charter. The hon.
Gentleman should understand precisely what that means. We do not discuss details of the rules of engagement, but our troops will be armed and will use their weapons for their own defence, if required.The Gentleman asked about the reserve call-out, and I can tell him that we have no plans in that regard. This important deployment will be small. The precise numbers have not yet been determined, so I see no need for a reserve call-out. However, the purpose of having reserves available is that they can be called out in certain circumstances, if there is a need to supplement the work of the regular forces in meeting the demands placed on us under the UN charter. No such call-out is planned on this occasion.
Tony Worthington (Clydebank and Milngavie): I welcome today's statement, which has been inevitable for many years. Like everyone else, I welcome it with apprehension because of the scale of the problem that exists.
I have two points to make. First, there must be a fierce intensification of the diplomatic effort to prevent neighbouring states from interfering in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and to get their forces out of that country. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that the Government are playing their part in that? Secondly, I suggest that my right hon. Friend read "A Nation Betrayed" by Linda Melvern, which deals with Rwanda. We must not betray the Congo in the same way that Rwanda was betrayed. Every member of the UN Security Council must play its part, which means an application of forces way beyond what is being talked about today.
Mr. Ingram: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who has been very active in highlighting this issue. He takes a close interest in this and other parts of the world, and I know that he has been raising this issue over a considerable period of time. He asked for more military intervention and for more intensive diplomatic efforts. I assure him that the diplomatic effort is being intensified as a result of the assessment that a military solution is not the way forward. However, we must always take matters on a case-by-case basis. The UN approach to the issue has been carefully constructed, and we must recognise the primacy of the UN in the matter and accept its assessment. The UN has asked for support, and adopting the EU-led approach of the ESDP will give confidence in the interim period, ahead of what we hope will be a much more substantial presence on the ground through MONUC, the UN force in the area.
I do not know how many troops my hon. Friend thinks should be involved, given the scale of the problem, but it would be a failure of our thought processes if we were to adopt a military approach to the matter. As he said, we must adopt a diplomatic approach. All our efforts, through the UN and through NGOs, must be aimed at finding the best solution. The problem is complex and has existed for some time. We are all aware of the terrible experience in Rwanda in 1994, and I do not think I need to read the book "A Nation Betrayed". All of us remember in some detail what went on at that time. Lessons have been learned, and I hope that we can find a solution on this occasion.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): Although I recognise that the deployment is a small one,
does the Minister understand that many of us oppose it? Britain has no historical responsibility for the Congo, and our economic and political interests there are very small. As the Father of the House said, the risks involved in the deployment are very great. In those circumstances, does the Minister accept that the risks to British servicemen are such that we should not commit them in such a venture?
Mr. Ingram: No, I do not. There is no question but that there is a risk attached whenever we deploy our armed forces. However, our forces know what they are being asked to do. They are professional, dedicated and highly trained people. On this particular occasion, they have a specific role within a specific and tight mandate that has a specific time frame. There is also a humanitarian element to the deployment. If we can solve this problem by means of EU and UN action, I am sure that the British people will be on our side, and British forces will have done a great job once again in the name of this country.
Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge and Chryston): I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement, and his clear declaration of the Government's logical and realistic response to an extremely serious problem.
I turn now to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Clydebank and Milngavie (Tony Worthington). Those of us who were part of an all-party group that had the privilege of visiting Rwanda towards the end of last year recall that the President of Rwanda warned that he would not hesitate to send troops into the Democratic Republic of the Congo if he perceived a threat to his country's borders. It would be absolutely wrong for Britain to stand by and watch a repeat of the genocide that has taken place in the region, especially when the UN has invited us to contribute and we have the support of the EU.
Therefore, I again welcome my right hon. Friend's statement. In the circumstances, if it becomes necessary for the Government to add to Britain's contribution, we should not hesitate to do so.
Mr. Ingram: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who is another Member with a very close interest in this particular part of the world. I can tell him that the Government of Rwanda welcome this initiative, as do neighbouring states. All those countries are very keen to resolve the very deep problems in the area, as they realise that the problems could spill over their borders. That is why there is tremendous international support for the deployment, as my right hon. Friend's remarks have underlined.
Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): The Minister of State should hang his head in shame at this statement. We are making a token contribution to a token force that is going into a boiling cauldron of a situation. If the international community was even half serious about dealing with the matter, the deployment would involve a properly organised UN force with a properly organised UN mandate. What we have instead is a confusion that involves a multinational force sitting alongside UN forces. The forces involved are wholly inadequate for the confusion of tasks that have been set. Nothing that the Minister of State has said can disguise
the fact that the deployment is simply a little gift from the Prime Minister to the President of France that will allow the EU to strut its stuff on a stage that it should not even contemplate. The sooner we can get out of this disastrous engagement, the better.
Mr. Ingram: The hon. Gentleman is applying his usual judgment in coming to his conclusion—although he may change his mind tomorrow, as he has done in respect of other matters.
I do not hang my head in shame about this. I think that we can hold our heads up in relation to the commitment that we are making. That commitment is being made on the basis of what we have been asked to do by the UN, which has identified a shortfall in its current force strength in that part of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It has asked us to do something, and we have decided to do what we can. Our participation will be for a limited period. We recognise the dangers that exist, and we do not undertake the deployment lightly. All the matters involved have been properly assessed, and we have studied the rules of engagement to determine the basis on which our people will be deployed. We have also assessed the force protection that will be required when we deploy our personnel. If the hon. Gentleman thinks otherwise, he has not understood for one moment the way in which this Government—and previous Governments—arrive at conclusions when deploying forces. We do not make this deployment lightly, but we recognise that we have international commitments. I should have hoped that the hon. Gentleman would recognise that those commitments must be understood and adhered to.
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