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Miss Melanie Johnson: The hon. Gentleman may have corrected the word "recipients", but it still appears in amendment No. 56, and he and I would agree that its meaning is unclear.
Mr. Chope: I raised the matter when I saw the amendments in draft on blue paper. The Clerk assured me that there had been a typographical error and that the word "recipients" would be replaced by the word "occupiers". I am sorry that that does not seem to have materialised on today's Order Paper.
Miss Johnson: I am not sure where that leaves us for the purpose of the debate, although I understand the hon. Gentleman's point. I accept the good intention underlying the amendment, but such a measure would be difficult to operate and potentially ineffectual. The owners of adjoining land in highly populated areas such as London could mean the owners of properties immediately around the perimeter of the display, but neighbours living just a few meters away or at the other end of a small road might be left out. It is difficult to see how the measure would be helpful to all those who might be affected, particularly because, as the hon. Gentleman acknowledged, public displays tend to be large and significant, and can be viewed from quite a wide surrounding area.
I do not believe that the intention is to inform all residents within a defined perimeter, which would be difficult anyway, because of the cost to the operators. Fireworks displays generally are heavily subsidised. There is usually a promoter, who puts a substantial amount in. The proposed measure could oblige the organisers to notify thousands of residents. That might
kill off public displays, which we all agree are in general a good thing. In the light of my reservations, I hope the hon. Gentleman will not press the amendments.
Mr. Chope: Has the Minister given the House an assurance that the clause as drafted would not impact in the way that I fear, in relation to displays witnessed by the public from outside?
Miss Johnson: The definition of a public display is set out in subsection (5), which clearly states that a fireworks display is one attended by the public or a section of the public, thereby precluding private fireworks displays on private land. If members of the public choose to watch their neighbours' garden display, that is an instance of "free riding", but we could not classify it as a public display.
Mr. Chope: I thank the Minister for that clarification. In the light of her comments, I shall seek leave to withdraw my amendment No. 56, but with this caveat: the Minister's Department is involved in public information, and it would be useful for the Department to encourage people who are organising public fireworks displays, particularly outside the usual season for fireworks and in rural areas, to notify their neighbours as a matter of good neighbourliness, to avoid some of the problems that have occurred in the past.
Given the particular difficulties with my amendment, which has been printed differently from the way that I had intended, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Mr. Leigh: I beg to move amendment No. 65, in page 5, line 33, leave out Clause 9.
First, I am grateful to the Minister for accepting amendment No. 66, so that category 1 and 2 fireworks will no longer effectively be dealt with by the Bill. That is good progress.
This is a probing amendment that seeks to determine why clause 9 is necessary. I accept that some extremely unpleasant and unsafe fireworks are being manufactured around the world, which we may not want here, but why cannot the Minister use powers provided elsewhere in the Bill and in earlier regulations to deal with such products? Why is it necessary to have a separate clause on imports? The Minister may be able to give a good reason.
The Minister will also want to explain how the clause impacts on Europe and the single market. I am sure that the clause does not apply to imports from the EU. Bearing in mind what the Minister has said, there will probably be agreement throughout Europe on a decibel limit of about 120, so imports will presumably be on that basis. I am sure that the Minister will assure the House that clause 9 in no way militates against the free
exchange of fireworks across the EU, which adds to competition and creates choice in a free market—all the things that we are in favour of.
Mr. Robathan: The clause is of immense importance and I shall be interested to hear what the Minister has to say. Many of the problems that are associated with fireworks are the result of some rather dodgy importers. My hon. Friends have improved the Bill and made some good points, but I would not wish to see the amendment carried.
Mr. Chope: I shall be interested to hear what the Minister has to say about the single market and on the issue of personal imports that was mentioned earlier. Is it envisaged that there should be restrictions on personal imports of fireworks? If people go to Calais or Boulogne and buy a case of fireworks, or fill up the back of their white van with fireworks instead of with booze, will they be restricted by the clause?
My understanding of the thinking behind the clause was that something needed to be done to control the situation between the point where fireworks were imported, for example, Felixtowe docks, and the place where they were stored. If that is the mischief that needs to be addressed in regulations, I question whether prohibiting the import itself, or putting conditions upon the importer, is necessarily the right way to proceed. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
Mr. Tynan: I am concerned about removing the clause from the Bill because it serves a useful purpose. The industry is concerned about fireworks that, having been imported, do not go to a licensed storage place. The drivers therefore have no need to register that they are driving to a storage place and sometimes drive to a lay-by and split their load between perhaps 12 rogue retailers, who then sell the fireworks indiscriminately over three months. I think that the clause is essential if we are to deal with the rogue retailer who sells fireworks indiscriminately to anyone who will buy them, and with problems such as those that arose in my constituency over Christmas and new year, when category 4 fireworks were imported by the white van people, who were distributing and selling them in pubs.
My concern is not about imports from Europe, as most imports—some 95 per cent.—come from China. On Second Reading, I pointed out that an application form for an import licence is a simple A4 document that is very easy to fill in and to submit to the Department of Trade and Industry. If somebody has £25,000 to spare, they can send a banker's draft to China and ask for a lorry load of fireworks, and there is no need to determine whether proper storage and licensed premises will be used. If the Minister uses the powers wisely, the clause will assist in eliminating many problems concerning antisocial use of fireworks.
I hope that the amendment will not be pressed and that hon. Members will accept the difficulties that currently exist with regard to importation.
Mr. Baron: I rise briefly to speak in support of clause 9, which I think is a very important aspect of the Bill.
I was recently contacted by constituents about an unfortunate accident that occurred because of a poorly manufactured firework from the far east. Fortunately,
there was no fatality, but an injury was caused. Any attempt to tighten up the situation to ensure that imported fireworks are of a certain standard is to be welcomed, as is any attempt to combat the illegal importation of fireworks and related problems of inadequate storage and supervision.I welcome the clause, notwithstanding the fact that, as ever, it is an open-ended and enabling provision and I am not quite sure what will result. Overall, I think that it should remain in the Bill and it will certainly receive my support.
Miss Melanie Johnson: There is no single market in respect of fireworks and fireworks control, so the question of the single market is not an issue, as hon. Members have suggested.
Importation prohibition is required if there is an intention to minimise the availability of banned fireworks and thus to ensure that the British public are not the victims of the white van sales described by my hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton, South (Mr. Tynan). In most cases, the products sold in such circumstances are unsafe.
Furthermore, I believe that the amendment would lead to a peculiar situation in which fireworks banned under the Bill and the Fireworks (Safety) Regulations 1997 would be manufactured and stored in a country that prohibits them. That seems a very paradoxical outcome and I am sure that it is not intended.
I request and hope that the amendment will be withdrawn.
Mr. Leigh: This was a probing amendment and I think that we have had a reasonable debate. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
1.15 pm
Mr. Chope: I beg to move amendment No. 63, in page 6, line 10, leave out clause 10.
The amendment was inspired by the receipt late on Wednesday of the regulatory impact assessment on the Bill. The clause introduces a lot of regulation, requirements about training and so on. We probably know from our constituency postbags that some of these requirements impinge disproportionately on small businesses and shopkeepers—on the small business person, rather than the large multiple. If a butcher, for example, has to go on a training course, he has to find somebody else to run his shop. A little café in Highcliffe in my constituency recently obtained a licence to sell alcohol with meals, and the proprietor is required to go on a training course. He needs no training in something like that—he is a fit and proper person for the task. The requirement to go on a training course means that he will have to close his café or get someone in in his stead.
My instinct that there is no evidence of a problem that needs to be addressed, particularly in the case of organised displays, was confirmed when I read paragraph 5.4 of the regulatory impact assessment, which states in respect of training of display operators:
- "There is no clear evidence of major incidence of death or serious injury caused by the use of fireworks by display operators. We do know that there have been occasional serious accidents in the past. But in the cases for which the Health and Safety Executive . . . have recent accident reports, there is still little clear evidence that the injuries sustained by members of the public were as a direct result of incompetence or the unprofessional use of fireworks."
The important point is that we do not duplicate legislation. The regulatory impact assessment states that event organisers and display operators already have duties
- "under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the safety of members of the public, as well as their and others' employees. These duties would . . . require"—
- "operators to carry out a full site assessment; ensure that the equipment they use is suitable for the purpose; and ensure that they and their staff are competent and properly trained."
- "The Health and Safety Executive . . . believes that the fireworks display industry has a generally very good safety record."
We are almost getting into a mindset whereby we think that we should introduce a requirement for training, tests and so on through back-door regulation. We sometimes lose sight of the big picture, and the big picture in fireworks is that general safety would be improved if more people went to organised firework displays, rather than choosing to run them in their own gardens. Yet I suspect that if unamended, clause 10 would impose unnecessary and counter-productive burdens on those who are contemplating organising firework displays, add to their costs and encourage much smaller, unofficial firework displays. If the Minister has signed up to the regulatory impact assessment, why will she not carry through the logic of it and accept that we would be better off without clause 10?
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