THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
OFFICIAL REPORT
IN THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIFTY–THIRD PARLIAMENT OF THE
UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
[WHICH OPENED 13 JUNE 2001]
FIFTY–SECOND YEAR OF THE REIGN OFHER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II
SIXTH SERIES
VOLUME 407
FOURTEENTH VOLUME OF SESSION 2002–2003
House of Commons
Monday 16 June 2003
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
HOME DEPARTMENT
The Secretary of State was asked—
Criminal Justice
1. Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North): When he next plans to visit the council estates of Nottingham, North to explain Government policy on the criminal justice system; and if he will make a statement. [119011]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Paul Goggins): The Home Secretary visited Nottingham on 11 April. He attended a meeting on gun crime and visited local community projects. He has no plans to visit Nottingham, North in the near future.
Mr. Allen : I welcome my hon. Friend to his first Question Time. I note that he is one of the most experienced Ministers on the Front Bench and I wish him and his colleagues well in their new positions—and, indeed, those who have their old positions.
The ministerial team in the Home Department and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary have made heroic efforts to amend the criminal justice system to make it more relevant to today's circumstances. However, will my hon. Friend re-examine the possibility of trying to reconnect the criminal justice system more with those who pay for it, by which I mean people living on the estates in our constituencies, many of whom feel disengaged from it? Will my hon. Friend reflect on how best to put that right? Could he run a pilot scheme, for example, to—
Mr. Speaker: Order. That question is far too long. I call the Minister.
Paul Goggins: I thank my hon. Friend for his good wishes, and, in saying that, I am sure that I speak not just for myself but for other members of the Front-Bench team.
It is important to understand that criminal justice policy and legislation are not for the House alone; they must go out right across estates such as those in my hon. Friend's constituency. In Nottinghamshire, as elsewhere throughout the country, we now have local criminal justice boards whose job it is to ensure that these policies are better communicated to build public confidence in the criminal justice system. The local criminal justice boards have to produce an annual report and can also publish newsletters and other forms of communication. I am sure that he will be pleased to know that CJS Online includes a page dedicated to the local board in his area.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): Will the Minister encourage the Home Secretary to go to Nottingham, North, whose electors doubtless wish to be reassured that the Minister responsible for the criminal justice system is based in this House, has
political legitimacy by election and does not owe his present position to the fact that he is a friend of the Prime Minister?
Paul Goggins: I am sure that my right hon. Friend will take every opportunity to visit Nottingham, but when he goes there, or anywhere else in the country, it will be abundantly clear that he, as Home Secretary, is in charge of criminal justice policy.
Mr. Oliver Letwin (West Dorset): I, too, welcome the new Minister—and, indeed, the other new Ministers—to the Dispatch Box. We hope to add considerably to their work load.
I am sorry that the Home Secretary will not visit Nottingham's council estates in the near future. When he eventually does so, will he explain to the people living there the difference between the Prime Minister's early pledge that he would
- "halve the time from arrest to sentencing"
- "to halve the time it takes to get persistent young offenders into court from the time they were arrested"?
Paul Goggins: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his good wishes and I can reassure him that we kept the pledge that we made. I took an early look into the problem: when we took office in 1997, it was 142 days, whereas it is now consistently 71 days or fewer.
Mr. Letwin: Oh yes, the "it" has been kept, but it has changed. Getting people into court is not the same as getting them convicted. If it were, the Home Secretary's vast legislative energies would be entirely wasted.
When the Minister eventually visits Nottingham, will he also tell people living on the council estates why he is today quietly bringing to a Committee Upstairs a regulation that will abolish the statutory time limits for youth justice that the Government themselves introduced in 1999? Will he explain to the people of Nottingham why on 14 May 1998, the Minister's predecessor, the then Under-Secretary, said that abolishing those regulations would
- "undermine our wish to administer justice expeditiously, particularly for young offenders"?—[Official Report, Standing Committee B, 14 May 1998; c. 399.]
Paul Goggins: May I explain to the right hon. Gentleman that the pledge and the time limits are two entirely different but complementary objectives? The pledge that he read out from the pledge card has been kept, and we have reflected on the need for time limits.
The fact that we are removing statutory time limits does not remove the urgency of timeliness within the criminal justice system.Drugs Policy
2. John Barrett (Edinburgh, West): What discussions he has had with the Scottish Justice Minister regarding the co-ordination of UK drugs policy. [119012]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Caroline Flint): My hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, North-East (Mr. Ainsworth) last met the Scottish Deputy Justice Minister, Hugh Henry MSP, at the British-Irish Council meeting on 7 February. A programme of drug-related activities was agreed at that meeting to improve co-operation between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations and to share experiences and good practice.
John Barrett : I congratulate the Minister on her new appointment. Are there any plans to work with the new Justice Minister to reduce the amount of drugs entering the country, both north and south of the border? What message can she send to my constituents to prove that everything that can be done is being done?
Caroline Flint: The Scottish Executive are also represented on a number of cross-Government official groups and committees and there is strong liaison north and south of the border. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government and the Scottish Executive take the abuse of drugs, and the crime that emanates from it, very seriously. It is a major priority for the Government.
David Cairns (Greenock and Inverclyde): Given that 90 per cent. of the heroin on the streets of Scotland—and on the streets of Doncaster—originates from poppies grown in Afghanistan, may I draw my hon. Friend's attention to the recent report from United Nations inspectors, which says that this year's poppy harvest is likely to be a record bumper crop? Can she give me an assurance that every step will be taken to ensure that that poppy harvest does not become the raw opium that becomes heroin on the streets of Scotland and Doncaster, leading to devastation for her constituents and mine?
Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend raises an important matter. We need to deal with the source from which drugs come, and I am pleased to inform him that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary met the Afghan President only last week. Some £150 million of UK money is being provided to tackle the problem. I know that my hon. Friend works hard on the issue and I will ensure that his comments are drawn to the attention of the appropriate Ministers.
Mr. Peter Duncan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale): I welcome the Minister to her new role. Is she aware that one of the major ways to address the drugs problem north and south of the border is by a massive increase in rehabilitation facilities? Will she commit to learning the lessons from experience in both England and Scotland
through consultation? That obviously did not happen on Thursday when the post of Secretary of State for Scotland was first abolished, and then reinstated.
Caroline Flint: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his welcome. What happened last week is not relevant. The Home Secretary has overall responsibility for the UK strategy on drugs and the Scottish Executive have responsibility for implementing strategies and deciding priorities in Scotland. There is no change there, regardless of changes to the position of the Secretary of State for Scotland. Treatment is very important, and we recognise that north and south of the border. We know that we have to do more in that area, but we are providing resources on a massive scale to ensure that people get the treatment that they need, according to their needs and when they need it.
Mr. Tom Harris (Glasgow, Cathcart): I welcome my hon. Friend to the Dispatch Box. Does she agree that the recovery of drug dealers' assets is an important weapon in the fight against the drug trade? What mechanisms exist to ensure co-operation between the Assets Recovery Agency in England and Wales and the Crown Office, which is responsible for asset recovery in Scotland? Does she agree that an equally stringent regime on both sides of the border is necessary to prevent drug dealers from moving around to try to take advantage of an apparently more lenient regime?
Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend makes a good point. If we are going to make progress, it is essential to have co-operation between all the agencies involved. I am only three days into my job, but it will be an issue that I will seek to look at. I welcome any representations from Members of Parliament or their constituents on how the matter is dealt with, locally, regionally and nationally.
Mr. Nick Hawkins (Surrey Heath): I congratulate the Minister on her appointment and welcome her to the Dispatch Box. When she considers the Home Office's responsibilities for drug strategy, will she bear in mind the great anger in all parts of the country—not only Scotland—at the fact that British taxpayers' money is used to purchase and supply hard drugs to prisoners in Scottish prisons? Will she also bear in mind the fact that anti-drugs campaigners are very angry about the messages given on the Home Office's Talk to Frank website, which appear to provide excuses for drug taking rather than to steer children away from drugs?
Caroline Flint: We do not provide any excuse for drug taking. I will look into the matter that the hon. Gentleman raises in relation to prisons, but I am afraid that I do not have the information to hand. We take the situation very seriously, and our priority is to tackle hard drugs—class A drugs—because they cause the most harm to individuals and provoke the most crime.
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