| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar): There is only one.
The Deputy Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman means the county council, but others are involved. That is what the county council has to say.
The right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) reels off all those people who are against the proposals, but I have some of the polls here—for example, a MORI poll of March 1999—and many people accept their authority when the results come out. One says that 52 per cent. wanted a referendum, and the BBC poll of 2002 said that 72 per cent. wanted one. Indeed, the County Councils Network—the very county councils that are opposing the proposals—set up a review in their own areas and 70 per cent. of the people said that they wanted a referendum. That is the county councils themselves: they paid for that review and more than 70 per cent. said that they want a referendum, so I am a little cautious when I hear the right hon. Gentleman talking about them.
In all these referendums, Cheshire— [Interruption.] Well, it was part of the County Councils Network. [Interruption.] I know that Conservative Members do not like the results, but that is what happened. In all those areas, we have shown that people—trade unions, businesses, organisations and individuals—have called for a referendum. That has persuaded me to hold a referendum in the three northern areas that I have mentioned, and properly so.
There is considerable evidence to be taken alongside that which I have placed before the House today. As for the abolition of the county councils and the point that the right hon. Gentleman made, he must be aware that the Tory Government abolished more county councils than the Labour Government, and did not even ask them. He knows that those county councils were abolished by the Tories, and I should remind the Opposition of them, as everyone on their Front Bench was involved in it. We find that Humberside, which is my own area, as well as Avon, Cleveland and Hereford and Worcester were all abolished by the previous Government without any consultation. The Greater London council was abolished without any consultation, so I will not take any of this hypocritical comment.
Regarding whether there will be greater economic prosperity, I must tell the right hon. Gentleman to look at the regions and the economic data, whether for jobs or investment, for 1997 and compare them with those for now. He will see that there has been a remarkable turnaround in every one of those regions.
The highest levels of employment and investment have occurred under the regional development agencies that we established during the first two years of a Labour Government.
As for whether the CBI is right or wrong, it is wrong. It is also divided on the issue. As anyone in any of the northern regions will confirm, its members are not completely united; but they are not all against the proposal. Those who think that it is damaging are wrong.
Finally, there was the claim that the Daily Mail was conducting a survey. Well, the Daily Mail—the Tory rag, the Tory propaganda paper—would not know truth if it stared it in the face. So, it is carrying out a poll and we will see what it says tomorrow. Of course, there are international observers from The Guardian who will report on whether the poll is legitimate.
At the end of the day, we promised the people a referendum. We promised to give them a choice and allow them to make their decision. We are acting on that promise now.
Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton): I thank the Deputy Prime Minister not just for his statement, but for his performance. I welcome the news that the three English regions can now choose between regional democracy and a regional quango state. This is a good day for democracy. Devolution supporters can now combine to campaign for a "yes" vote, and to kick-start a vital constitutional reform. Will the Deputy Prime Minister confirm, however, that his noble Friend Lord Falconer will not be in charge of regional devolution, despite the establishment of a Department for Constitutional Affairs?
Does the Deputy Prime Minister realise that he could have given the "yes" campaign an even bigger boost had he proposed a far richer devolution than is proposed in the White Paper? Voters in the regions would be much more impressed by him if he could assure them that his regional devolution is about reducing Government control freakery, about cutting Whitehall down to size, and about voter power rather than ministerial power. Unfortunately, he cannot do that.
Why is the right hon. Gentleman not prepared to allow regions to hold the Environment Agency, the Highways Agency or the learning and skills councils to account? Why do the Government on the one hand support devolution, and on the other try to reduce the power of regions to negotiate at Brussels for regional support? Why do they support the so-called repatriating of structural funds, which will deny new regional assemblies a chance to win extra cash for their own communities?
The Deputy Prime Minister failed to mention that an amendment tabled in the House of Lords won a second referendum on the question of local government reorganisation. It was, in fact, a Liberal Democrat amendment. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that
the second referendum not only gives voters more choice, but improves the chances of success for a "yes" vote?When does the Deputy Prime Minister expect to publish the draft Bill on powers for regional assemblies? Can he confirm that it will be published before the referendums?Today's statement marks an important if modest start on the road to regional devolution. While Liberal Democrats would drive a faster, more well-built model, we are glad that the Deputy Prime Minister has, on this occasion, overcome the obstacles placed in the way by the Prime Minister.
The Deputy Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his response and, indeed, his support. I have always felt that we need a credible Bill and a proper consensus across Government. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and I could agree on a good deal more about how the powers might be extended, but this will be a dynamic development, like those involving Scotland and Wales. Those who are elected will have a regional voice, which will give them more power over central Government. They will have to deal with, and negotiate with, central Government. I present the Bill knowing full well that those in the regions may expect more than it contains, but they will have a framework within which to negotiate and make their case.
Although I readily accept that there is a legitimate argument in favour of much of what the hon. Gentleman has said, he should not underestimate the assemblies' ability to conduct hearings and hold regional bodies to account—including the Highways Agency and the Environment Agency.
I think that rubbing two fingers together means money—although I had better keep off the subject of two fingers. We highlighted where the resources would come from in that matter and we await future events. That is the nature of political development between us.
An amendment was mentioned, and I properly record that that was a Liberal amendment tabled in the House of Lords, and that it made the Bill much better. It was important to bring the Bill before the House in time to start the process, and I am grateful for the support that we received. The people will now have a greater choice in respect of what they believe should be the unitary choices within a county council area. They alone will take the decision. The Bill is the better for the amendment, and I readily agree that that came from the Liberals. As to the publication of the Bill, we hope to be able to publish it before the referendum.
Joyce Quin (Gateshead, East and Washington, West): I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend's announcement and his long-standing commitment to transfer powers to people in the regions in order to give them a stronger voice. I urge him, particularly if this turns out to be a five-year Parliament, to examine the possibility of bringing in regional government before or around the time of the next election. Does he agree that if we are to build on people's loyalty towards their own region, it is important to conduct a concerted campaign across government to give people all the detailed information that they will need before casting their votes?
The Deputy Prime Minister: I thank my right hon. Friend for her remarks and support. She has been an acknowledged campaigner in this sphere for many years, and I recall both of us campaigning together in support of regional government. I think that we are both pleased about the statement that I made today, and the debate will now start. I want to make it clear to people in regions that we assume that they want regional government, and that this will be the acid test. If they fail the test, frankly, this will not come about. I believe that it will, but the test lies in the choice that we are giving the people. As for whether the Bill can be introduced before the date of the next election, it is highly questionable when that event will come—we all know about the problems of timetables in Parliament. We will certainly do our utmost to conduct the referendum, and I am committing myself to doing so. The timetable seems a little short in view of the fact that I have to bring a Bill before the House, but we will do all that we can to make as much progress as possible.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |