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Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire): I sympathise with the hon. Gentleman's views on old coal mining communities, but there are other people who do not have access to mains gas and the economies associated with it, who often have to get their energy from liquefied petroleum gas. The cost per unit of LPG is much higher than that of mains gas. Such people also suffer from not being able to get an economic connection to the mains gas supply.
John Mann: I take the hon. Gentleman's point; he makes a useful contribution to the debate.
The scale of the problem is illustrated by the fact that 600,000 households would be taken out of fuel poverty if they had proper access to gas. Almost every one of those is a pensioner household. There are particular problems in coal mining areas because of the historic legacy that I have described, and because of their weddedness—which was quite right at the time—to the financial incentive of concessionary coal. These pensioners are the oldest people in my constituency. The 90-year-old whom I mentioned is an actual example, but there are plenty of those aged between 80 and 90 years—and some who are over 90—in these bungalows. The vast majority now wish to have the choice, and the right to gas.
I would like six matters to be looked at by the Department. The first is the situation of mining community pensioners who are disproportionately denied the right to choose gas if they wish to do so because of the mess of regulation. Secondly, I would like the extension of the warm zones initiative to Bassetlaw to be seen as a potential way forward. Thirdly, I would like more local authority pilots to be considered to tackle historic infill problems, because, to take one of the three examples, the vast majority of the relevant properties on the Bracebridge estate are council owned, so a potential solution is the council front-loading the cost of connection and allowing the pensioners, through their rents, to pay back over a much longer period.
Fourthly, I would like consideration to be given to a fuel poverty policy that links to the new energy policy—put forward by the Government and agreed by Parliament—which prioritises gas as the key energy source for the future. Fifthly, there should be an end to the regulator's pretence that competition is working and clarification of the fact that competition should be in gas supply, not in the building and creation of the infrastructure. Sixthly, I would like to see agreement that the policy of expanding the historic infill gas infrastructure is clearly failing and needs reviewing by the Department.
1.41 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Nigel Griffiths): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) on securing this debate on an important subject. At his invitation, I have visited his constituency twice in the fairly recent past, and I well know the high regard in which his constituents hold him. He is clearly a Member with his finger on the pulse. I also welcome the brief but thoughtful comments by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, North (Mr. Gardiner) and the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Mr. Williams). Clearly, this matter affects a wider area than Bassetlaw.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw specifically highlighted the problem that residents of the Bracebridge area of his constituency have with the network. As he pointed out, Bracebridge has no gas supply, although communities in the surrounding area and close to it—I have visited the area—have a supply. That, of course, can be galling for people. I understand that earlier this year Transco was approached to provide an estimate for connecting the 92 properties in his community; I think that he has visited each one. The company quoted more than £900 per property, if I am not mistaken. That is triple the sum that my hon. Friend said that others in his constituency would have to pay. This is a matter of considerable concern to those without access to a gas supply at the lower price.
My hon. Friend and other Members will be pleased that the design and demonstration unit intends to issue shortly a list of the top 100 communities without gas that are in most need and could be connected at the least cost. That is a refinement of earlier research by Transco's affordable warmth programme, which ranked communities outside the mains gas network on the basis of the index of multiple deprivation. The research indicated that almost 9,000 clusters of communities of more than 50 households had no access to a gas supply, and 4,600 of those were within 2 km of the gas main. I understand that Bracebridge was on that list.
Clearly, there has to be a sensible way to decide which communities should have the work carried out, to ensure that priority is given to the competing demands from communities across the country. I will certainly ensure that my hon. Friend's concerns are brought to the attention of the new unit so that they can be taken into account.
My hon. Friend made a strong bid for the establishment of a warm zone in Bassetlaw. I believe that warm zones can have a significant impact on the reduction of fuel poverty in large areas by focusing closely on communities in those areas, and can address a range of needs by a range of methods. As my hon. Friend will know, my hon. Friend the Minister for Energy and Construction has supported the first five zones set up in the pilot round that began in 2001. The results of the pilots are currently being evaluated. During that process my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw will have entered into discussions with his local authority, which may want to consider what contribution it could make to the establishment of a warm zone and to discuss its interests with the industry or the warm zone company. I hope that when the results of the pilots are known he will facilitate that discussion, and inform the Minister for Energy of the outcome.
My hon. Friend mentioned a number of other issues that had caused his constituents understandable concern. Transco is statutorily required to provide a quotation for a connection, but the regulator has determined that the quotation must reflect the actual cost. If Transco did not quote on that basis, it would lay itself open to legal challenges both from competitors and from Ofgem, on the basis of anti-competitive behaviour.
John Mann: Earlier the Minister quoted a Transco price of approximately £900. That, of course, would require a significant proportion of households to agree to be part of the infill. I could approach the 16 properties that are within 10 m of the gas main, and Transco would be obliged to pay for all 16 to be connected at a price of £312. That, however, would mean the building of eight or nine tunnels beneath main roads, at considerable expense. Is there not a lack of logic in the current system? I could be encouraging people to cause far more money to be spent by adopting the piecemeal option, rather than using the money effectively. It would cost more to have those 16 properties connected if they were connected one at a time—although they would be charged £312—than it would to get all the properties connected.
Nigel Griffiths: I understand that my hon. Friend had an extensive discussion about that with Transco representatives when he met them last Friday to put his points forcefully. As he says, a far higher price has been determined by the mechanism that Ofgem, the regulator, applies to properties that are further away. I will ensure that my hon. Friend's views, and those of Transco, are transmitted to the regulator, who must justify that approach.
My hon. Friend has drawn attention again to the problem of tackling the larger number of local connections, which can cause a great deal of disturbance as well as a great deal of cost. He mentioned fuel poverty earlier, and we take that issue seriously. It is wrong that senior citizens, especially those who are most vulnerable because of their advanced age, have no access to the cheapest and most practical form of fuel.
Mr. Roger Williams: This is an important debate for my constituency, which has some rural park home estates. Many of the people living on them are pensioners on limited incomes, but they are forced to access some of the most expensive forms of energy, including electricity and liquid petroleum gas. They have little real hope of gaining access to mains gas, which would be the cheapest form of energy and the best way to eliminate their fuel poverty.
Nigel Griffiths: Clearly, the discrepancies in the price that people pay for energy go to the heart of this Adjournment debate. I made it clear that the problem is not confined to Bassetlaw, although my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw deserves the credit for securing the debate to highlight the issues. He has made several pertinent points, and I know that both the Minister for Energy and the regulator will want to be made aware of them. I can give an undertaking to my hon. Friend and to the House that we will make the Minister for Energy and the regulator aware of my hon. Friend's concerns, which are shared throughout the House. We want to find the best way of ensuring that discrepancies in access to, and choice of, energy are minimised. Whenever practical, people should have a real and genuine choice. As my hon. Friend has made clear, that does not apply to 90 or so households in his constituency—nor, I am sure, to others.
I thank my hon. Friend once again for the concise way in which he expressed his pertinent points. I assure him that his concerns will be listened to carefully.
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