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Mr. John Battle (Leeds, West): My right hon. Friend deserves our thanks and congratulations for her tireless, detailed and sustained negotiating efforts—often out of the public eye—to bring about the achievement of real reform of the CAP. She will agree that general subsidies and, perhaps more importantly, dumping massively undermine developing countries' capacity to develop their own agriculture. Are any positive, alternative and supportive proposals to help small farming businesses in Britain, the EU and developing countries part of the new package? Such a strategic approach might help to create a new CAP that would contribute to the delivery of international trade justice.
Margaret Beckett: One of the things that we hope to do—we have begun this already in the UK on the back of the Curry commission proposals—is to offer marketing advice and support, as well as more general advice and support for people working together, whether in formal co-operatives or otherwise, to maximise their market opportunities. Such help and support is valued more widely.
My hon. Friend asked about general subsidies and dumping. He is right; this is a matter of great concern. I hope Opposition Members will not mind me saying, in all sincerity, that no matter how great their wish is to kick the Government by saying that this is not much of a deal, I hope that when they leave here they will say that the EU has moved a long way, even though they think it has not done nearly enough. It is now up to others. If we are honest, the EU has taken a much bolder stance in the negotiations than anyone would have anticipated. There is little point in doing that if it does not force others participating in the development round on to the back foot, forcing them to look again at what they do. There is perhaps not as fair a balance as there should be in some of the existing Harbinson proposals. It is time
for those such as the Cairns group and the United States—they will be absolutely astonished at this package—to realise that it is up to them to look at what they do, as well. If we all move together, that will be of real benefit to the developing world.
Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (West Derbyshire): The Secretary of State, in her previous job as Leader of the House, introduced the timetabling of all Bills, so perhaps there is some rough justice in her now being subject to a procedure that allows no timetabling at all in respect of these negotiations.
The Secretary of State said a little earlier in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington) that the question of a debate was a matter for the Leader of the House. I accept that that is true, but as she rightly acknowledged, there is no way that we can know all the details of the negotiations at this early stage. I am grateful for her statement, but it is important that a further debate be had in Government time, so that she can explain matters more fully. That would also give us a chance to examine the papers and end documents relating to the negotiations, so that we can find out how our constituencies will be affected. I am thinking in particular of small farmers in my constituency, who farm some very rough terrain indeed.
Margaret Beckett: Of course I take the hon. Gentleman's point, but having been Leader of the House, as he rightly says, I am mindful of my duty not to promise a debate, and even more mindful of my duty not to promise one in Government time.
Mr. Wayne David (Caerphilly): Like other Members, I welcome this historic achievement. It will certainly be welcomed by many others, not least by the United Nations, which suggested such reform only a few days ago in the world economic survey. However, will my right hon. Friend use her good offices to help ensure that the United States of America follows the European Union's very good example?
Margaret Beckett: I can assure my hon. Friend that I have had many interesting discussions with the Secretary for Agriculture in the US, and with the US trade representative. I look forward to having more, not least in Mexico in September. My hon. Friend is right: the entire developed world has signed up to this. We have reached agreement on the question of trying to reduce subsidies. We have agreed that we should open up access to our markets and that we should strive for a successful development round, of which the next stage is Mexico in September. Of course, even a very good deal on agriculture is not sufficient for the Doha round as a whole, but it is equally true that without a decent deal, it would have been a stumbling block.
Ann Winterton (Congleton): The EU is a rigid institution through which it is very difficult, if not impossible, to achieve change. The Commission is in the driving seat, and the Council of Ministers must negotiate on what is proposed. I say genuinely to the right hon. Lady, who claims that this is a new dawn for the common agricultural policy, that the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. We have a temperate climate, we grow grass and therefore produce milk, and
we have good cereal-growing areas in the eastern regions. Yet British agriculture is currently at the lowest possible ebb. Does she believe that it will benefit from the negotiations? Might not the opposite be true?
Margaret Beckett: I respect the hon. Lady's expertise in these matters, but I believe that this genuinely is a whole new settlement for British agriculture that will be very much to the benefit of consumers and taxpayers, as well as to agriculture practitioners. I gently remind her that that is not my view alone. The proposals that we sought to secure—such as the freedom to decouple payments from production—were urged on us by consumer organisations, by those concerned about spending and the economy, and by farming organisations in the UK and elsewhere. Moreover, they were very much the thrust of the Curry commission proposals, which were widely welcomed in this House not so very long ago. So it is not only the Government who think that this is a dramatic new opportunity for British agriculture; so do many practitioners. But it is between all of us that we have a chance to deliver on that.
Mrs. Betty Williams (Conwy): May I add my thanks and congratulations to my right hon. Friend for her hard work? No one in this House should underestimate the hard work that she has put in. She will be aware that the majority of farms in Wales are small farms. Can she highlight a couple of points that will persuade Welsh farmers to tell us, when we return to our constituencies tonight, that there is a welcome in the hillside and that this is a very good settlement indeed for them?
Margaret Beckett: First, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her kind remarks; I know that she appreciates just how much effort—effort on the part of many dozens of people, and down the years—goes into securing such an agreement. I take her point entirely about the structure of farming in Wales. Two points are germane to her remarks, and they will probably lead to a response from my hon. Friend the Minister with responsibility for devolved agriculture matters in the Welsh Assembly. We have secured the freedom for Wales to take decisions on its own about how it wishes to operate under these circumstances and rules. And because we have secured the national envelope, we have of course given ourselves freedom and resources that we can use. We work very closely with our colleagues in all three devolved bodies. They conveyed to us the flexibility that they would like to be able to use, should they need to do so, and we were able to secure it in the negotiations. So on the whole, we all feel that we have had a successful few days.
Mr. Simon Thomas (Ceredigion): One thing that farmers in Wales and Scotland will welcome is the sweeping away of the plethora of farm payments, and the institution of a single payment. Many farmers will want to use that as a springboard for entrepreneurship and as a springboard into the market. Of course, we need to wait a little to consider the detail of the agreement, but perhaps the Secretary of State could confirm a couple of points now. On the national envelope to which she refers, will she confirm that the National Assembly for Wales will have complete freedom to run its own programmes and support
mechanisms so far as the national envelope in Wales is concerned? Will she also confirm that the payments that she envisages are still farming money that will go to farming communities, not to a new plethora of project officers or to some form of rural development agency?Finally, in saying that things could be better for British farmers, the Secretary of State seemed to acknowledge that there could be market distortion—albeit that she thinks that it will be in our favour. Nevertheless, market distortion in a single market is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. What will she do to ensure that it does not destabilise the market for British farmers?
Margaret Beckett: I would be very surprised indeed if the arrangements operated in such a way as to destabilise the market. I do not want to be over-optimistic, but I should not be too surprised to discover that, between us all, we are able to get our approach right and to take sensible and far-sighted decisions on how we use the opportunities before us. I should not be at all surprised to see other member states make much swifter moves in the same direction than are currently being anticipated. Indeed, there is widespread suspicion that that might be so.
The hon. Gentleman also talked about encouraging entrepreneurship, and he is absolutely right. I am told that one feature of the discussions that have taken place throughout the United Kingdom in the run-up to the negotiations has been that conversations with older farmers about the potential package tend to involve reference to the problems that such changes will create. However, discussions with younger farmers tend to turn very quickly to the opportunities that such changes will create, which I find one of the most encouraging signs.
The hon. Gentleman asked about the freedom within Wales. As I said, this is a devolved responsibility. He also asked me to confirm where and how such flexibility should be used. If he will forgive me for saying so, he seemed to ask me two somewhat contradictory questions.
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