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8.30 pm
Mr. Boateng: We have had a full debate in which we have subjected the Bill's provisions and the amendments to them to considerable scrutiny. I say at the outset that it is important in reflecting on the issue of regulations, as the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Mr. Flight) has done, to recall not only the assurances that I gave in Committee, which I affirm, but also to understand that regulations will not be made under schedule 20 to increase the scope of stamp duty, or to increase the rate at which stamp duty is payable. The purpose of the regulations is to ensure that stamp duty continues to apply to stock and marketable securities in the way that it does now. Subjecting the regulations to affirmative resolution, as the amendments propose, is therefore unnecessary. I do not think that I could be clearer than that, and I hope that that satisfies the hon. Gentleman.
The hon. Gentleman needs to understand that the legislation as drafted enables the Treasury to manage the reduction in the scope of stamp duty in a smooth and effective manner and to make changes when they are needed. It is not our intention in any way to seek to increase the scope of stamp duty through these regulations, but it is intended that we should also use regulations to put in place repeals and amendments when they are needed to ensure that the reduction in the scope of stamp duty is achieved smoothly. I believe that that gives the hon. Gentleman the assurances that he seeks. I welcome the fact that he has been gracious enough to thank me for that assurance.
In a thorough debate, we have examined the clauses and the amendments in some detail. The hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Laws) made a serious contribution. There were serious and lengthy contributions from the hon. Members for Boston and Skegness (Mr. Simmonds) and for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly). I regard the contribution of the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness, by virtue of its length alone, to be a job application for the Committee that considers the Finance Bill in 2004. I am sure that Opposition Members who determine such matters will bear him very much in mind. I am only sorry that we missed him during the Committee stage of this year's Finance Bill. No doubt there were good reasons for that.
We need to reflect on the contributions of the hon. Members for Huntingdon and for Boston and Skegness. I am glad that both hon. Gentlemen took care to make it plain that they recognised the problem of widespread avoidance and that they approved of measures to deal with it. That is why I was disappointed that they were not able to find it in their hearts to approve the measures that we are bringing forward.
We believe that a lease duty structure that is more in line with commercial practice would significantly reduce distortions of business decisions and would be an
important part of encouraging compliance and preventing artificial avoidance schemes that are currently used to avoid stamp duty, to the extent of more than £10 million. I am surprised that the hon. Member for Huntingdon complains that the net present value formula is too complex and that he believes that it will lead individuals and practitioners to incur substantial costs in calculating values.We addressed the matter at some length in Committee. I made it clear then—I am happy to affirm what I said now—that all necessary help will be available to the public, practitioners and industry in using the net present value formula and applying the relevant legislation. In particular, an electronic help tool is being developed, which will be available from the date that stamp duty land tax is implemented. I hope that these assurances will be of assistance.
Mr. Laws: Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Boateng: I shall take up the points made by the hon. Gentleman. He can then return to them, if he wishes, in an intervention.
Complaint was made of uncertainty being introduced as a result of the measures that we are putting forward. We have taken a bold step in modernising the stamp duty regime. The task was long overdue, and it was an essential one. It was one that Conservative Members fluffed when they had the opportunity to carry it out. They have been only too keen to point out the long pedigree of stamp duty, so it is inevitable that modernisation of 300 years of law and practice will be a complex task. It may be that it is that very complexity that deterred Conservative Members from embarking upon the task when they had the opportunity to do so, despite frequent calls from the industry for them to do so.
We have addressed the task in a way that is open and consultative, and recognises its seriousness and complexity.
Mr. Laws: On the calculation of NVP, I think that the Minister said that some type of electronic device or tool would be available. Will he say more about that? Will it be a calculator with NVP capability? Will it be made available from local offices? Will there be a charge? Will he give us more information?
Mr. Boateng: It is not a calculator with NVP. I undertake to assure the hon. Gentleman that he will be one of the first to receive a demonstration of the tool. I shall draw to the attention of those responsible his interest in it. I look forward to his assessment of the electronic tool when he has the opportunity to reflect on it.
In Committee, the hon. Member for Huntingdon said that the provisions that we are introducing are not to be regarded as a cleaning-up exercise. I agree—there is a change from a tax on documents to a tax on transactions, which is a fundamental reform. Hon. Members have tried to analyse certain aspects of the Bill as if there were still a document tax, but that is quite wrong. The Bill requires a wholly new way of thinking, and the challenge is to make it work for every transaction. Inevitably, there will be some residual
uncertainty, as long-held principles are being dismantled and rebuilt so that they are fit for the 21st century. However, the Inland Revenue is working tirelessly to ensure that guidance is issued, and there will be further consultation. We make no apology for that, as I do not regard the fact that we are continuing to consult on the Bill as a sign of weakness. Such consultation is to be welcomed, and the programme of customer education that we have embarked on is designed to ensure that taxpayers' questions are answered and their concerns addressed.I turn to the issue that the hon. Member for Huntingdon raised about the consultation itself. I am sorry that he is no longer in the Chamber, as I would like to tell him that consultation has been fairly continuous since the Budget of 2002. We have ensured that it has been detailed and open to everyone who wishes to share their opinions and experience. To be fair, I do not think that the people who have been participating in the consultation have complained or have had any grounds to complain that their concerns have not been taken seriously.
Mr. Boateng: I shall give way in a moment, as I want first to address a survey that has been touted during our discussions this evening. I believe that it is an internal document, as I certainly have not seen it.
Mr. Prisk: It was published today.
Mr. Boateng: I look forward to having an opportunity to read it—[Interruption.] I shall not do so during my deliberations, although I am tempted.
The British Retail Consortium has been closely involved in work with Treasury officials on a number of areas, including changes that could be made to the lease duty proposals. Any data that it has to offer will, of course, be considered carefully. It has had discussions with officials, and recent meetings have been constructive. I do not doubt that in due course that that will be reflected in refinements to the proposals in the weeks and months ahead.
Mr. Prisk: If the Chief Secretary is now sufficiently confident about the sample on which the Revenue has allowed him and the Chancellor to proceed to claim that 60 per cent. of leases will in fact be exempt, will he now confirm to the House that he intends to publish that evidence so that we can see it and make sure that the consultation is as proper as he claims?
Mr. Boateng: I have already addressed that matter in detail in Committee. It is not our intention to depart from established practice and publish the figures as the hon. Gentleman suggests. However, we have shared data on leases with consultees in recent meetings. They are based on information provided by lessees to stamp offices and land registries, and they are the best data available to us. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will give us credit for our actions, because the consultation, I repeat, has been open and informed.
It being eight hours after the commencement of proceedings on the first Ways and Means motion relating to the Bill, Mr. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Order
[this day] proceeded to put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that hour.Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.
Amendment proposed: No. 9, in page 37, line 30, leave out clause 56.—[Mr. Prisk.]
Question put, That the amendment be made:—
The House divided: Ayes 168, Noes 294.
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