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5.30 pm
Sir Patrick Cormack: There may indeed be some time in the other place, but that is no answer to those of us who are concerned about this place. While I welcome the Minister to his portfolio—he comes to it with a reputation as a thoughtful and hard-working man and I
wish him every success—he must be ashamed of himself for what he had to do today. He had to gabble through, reading every last word, not only on the details of what the Government are proposing, but prepared replies on all the amendments that had not yet been spoken to by my hon. Friend the Member for West Chelmsford (Mr. Burns) or the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow). That is not only an insult to Parliament, but an insult through Parliament to every constituent who sent us here.I do not blame the Minister individually. He is working to orders, as he made plain in replying to an intervention. He cannot yet make the decisions, but no self-respecting parliamentarian, whatever his or her views and whatever party he or she belongs to, could be anything but ashamed that this is how Parliament deals with a Bill of extreme importance.
I do not make these remarks merely as somebody who is opposing the Government. Indeed, I did not oppose them in the first Division. Neither do I speak having never opposed my own Government. Although the guillotine was generous in comparison with today's, I remember throwing down my papers and refusing to vote on Third Reading of the NHS reform Bill introduced by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), as I felt that Parliament was being badly treated. However, if Parliament was being badly treated then, it is being totally abused now, and Ministers should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
When we look at the selection list, we see that there are four new clauses and about 40 amendments relating to the crucial subject of complaints procedures, which affect so many of our constituents. There are issues such as guardianship, but the Minister gabbled through that bit at such a rate of knots that, quite honestly, I could not understand what he was saying and I shall have to read it in Hansard tomorrow. Of course, I shall do so, but that is not good enough. When we have dealt with the current group of amendments, and although we have to finish at 5.50 pm, we must still deal with standards for health and social care, provision of health and social care in cross-border areas and registration and regulation of social care services and other services for children—and this Government are supposed to be child-friendly.
Madam Deputy Speaker, this is really not good enough. I was grateful to you for the thoughtful and considerate manner in which you replied to my point of order, but unless the voting time can be taken out of such programme motions, we may as well all pack up and go home, and show people out there how little care, concern, consideration and deliberation we give to issues that affect their daily lives.
I sit down in total disgust at the way in which this matter has been handled.
Dr. Ladyman: I shall be very brief in answering the points that have been raised. I hear what the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack) is saying and I shall certainly reflect on his thoughts and his admonition to me.
The hon. Member for West Chelmsford (Mr. Burns) pointed out that a prayer against could be used to secure the negative procedure, which puts in the hands of the
House the decision on whether these matters are debated. He also noted my assurance that I would reflect on points made by the Opposition and be prepared to change the legislation if they made a good point. He will recollect that I said that I thought it highly unlikely that they would come up with any such points that we had not thought of. None the less, I confirm that I shall reflect on everything that the Opposition say to me.I can assure the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) that we will consider the possibility of training in the regulations. We are determined that the two organisations will review complaints and carry out reviews in a seamless fashion. Indeed, the legislation requires them to work closely together, so I hope that people who complain will get such an assurance. We will also consider time limits for each stage of the procedure during consultation on the regulations.
Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.
New Clause 31
Complaints About Social Services
'(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the handling and consideration of complaints made under the regulations about—
(a) the discharge by a local authority in England of any of its social services functions;
(b) the provision of services by another person pursuant to arrangements made by such an authority in the discharge of those functions;
(c) the provision of services by such an authority or any other person in pursuance of arrangements made by the authority under section 31 of the Health Act 1999 (c.8) in relation to the functions of an NHS body (within the meaning of that section).
(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may provide for a complaint to be considered by one or more of the following—
(a) the local authority in respect of whose functions the complaint is made;
(b) the CSCI;
(c) an independent panel established under the regulations;
(d) any other person or body.
(3) The Assembly may by regulations make provision about the handling and consideration of complaints made under the regulations about—
(a) the discharge by a local authority in Wales of any of its social services functions;
(b) the provision of services by another person pursuant to arrangements made by such an authority in the discharge of those functions;
(c) the provision of services by such an authority or any other person in pursuance of arrangements made by the authority under section 31 of the Health Act 1999 (c.8) in relation to the functions of an NHS body (within the meaning of that section).
(4) Regulations under subsection (3) may provide for a complaint to be considered by one or more of the following—
(a) the local authority in respect of whose functions the complaint is made;
(b) an independent panel established under the regulations;
(c) any other person or body.
(5) Regulations under this section may provide for a complaint or any matter raised by a complaint—
(a) in the case of regulations under subsection (1), to be referred to the Commission for Local Administration in England for it to consider whether to investigate the complaint or matter under Part 3 of the Local Government Act 1974) (and to be treated as if it had been duly made under section 26 of that Act);
(b) in the case of regulations under subsection (3), to be referred to the Commission for Local Administration in Wales for it to consider whether to investigate the complaint or matter under Part 3 of that Act (and to be treated as if it had been duly made under section 26 of that Act);
(c) to be referred to any other person or body for him or it to consider whether to take any action otherwise than under the regulations.
(6) Regulations under this section may not make provision about complaints capable of being considered as representations under section 24D or section 26 of the Children Act 1989 (c.41).'.—[Dr. Ladyman.]
Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.
New Clause 32
Complaints Regulations: Supplementary
'(1) Regulations under subsection (1) or (2) of section (Complaints about health care) or under subsection (1) or (3) of section (Complaints about social services) ("the regulations") may, without prejudice to the generality of the subsection under which they are made, make the following provision.
(2) The regulations may make provision about—
(a) the persons who may make a complaint;
(b) the complaints which may, or may not, be made under the regulations;
(c) complaints which need not be considered;
(d) the period within which complaints must be made;
(e) the procedure to be followed in making and considering a complaint;
(f) matters which are excluded from consideration;
(g) the making of a report or recommendations about a complaint;
(h) the action to be taken as a result of the complaint.
(3) The regulations may require—
(a) the making of a payment, in relation to the consideration of a complaint under the regulations, by any person or body in respect of whom the complaint is made;
(b) any such payment to be—
(i) made to such person or body as may be specified in the regulations; and
(ii) of such amount as may be specified in, or calculated or determined under, the regulations;
(c) an independent panel to review the amount chargeable under paragraph (a) in any particular case and, if the panel thinks fit, to substitute a lesser amount.
(4) The regulations may also—
(a) provide for different parts or aspects of a complaint to be treated differently;
(b) require the production of information or documents in order to enable a complaint to be properly considered;
(c) authorise the disclosure of information or documents relevant to a complaint to a person or body—
(i) who is considering a complaint under the regulations; or
(ii) to whom a complaint has been referred;
and any such disclosure may be authorised notwithstanding any rule of common law that would otherwise prohibit or restrict the disclosure.
(5) The regulations may make provision about complaints which raise both matters falling to be considered under the regulations and matters falling to be considered under other statutory complaints procedures, including in particular provision for—
(a) enabling such a complaint to be made under the regulations; and
(b) securing that matters falling to be considered under other statutory complaints procedures are treated as if they had been raised in a complaint made under the appropriate procedures;
and in this subsection "statutory complaints procedures" means procedures established by or under any enactment.'.—[Dr. Ladyman.]
Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.
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