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Mr. Allen: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Spring: I am sorry, but I want the Leader of the House to have a substantial amount of time in which to wind up.
At the heart of the issue before the House lie two extremely important questions. Do the recommendations of the convention close the gap between the institutions of the EU and its people, returning a sense of ownership to them, or do they simplify the architecture of the EU, so as to increase people's understanding?
Before the convention began, the Leader of the House and the Foreign Secretary made a number of speeches highlighting the so-called democratic deficit. They were right to do so, of course. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) observed, the major challenge facing all democracies is lack of participation and lack of interest. Many commentators and others feel that the EU is running ahead of the capacity of people to absorb the rapid structural changes in it. As the Leader of the House has said, it is the elites of Europe who cause that sense of lack of accountability and control.
Yet the Foreign Secretary and the Leader of the House have signed up to a vision of Europe that is not only old fashioned and completely ill suited to the way that global relationships are evolving, but which is actually what they themselves have warned against. The democratic credentials of the two right hon. Gentlemen go back many decades. When they consider what has come out of the convention and the fact it does not address the problem of the democratic deficit in any substantial way, I hope that they will pause and consider what they have signed up to.
The British people must be given an opportunity to express their views. Every pathetic, third-rate excuse is employed to deprive the British people of that opportunity. Why should the British people be denied the opportunity that has been extended to many millions of our fellow Europeans? It is ironic that the Foreign Secretary and the Leader of the House, who in their youth were motivated with such a zeal for democracy, should suddenly get all coy and pretend that a written constitution is inconsequential. They say that it is just tidying up, when every other major EU leader totally rejects that view. They refuse the legitimate aspirations of the people of Britain to have their say. In its long history, Britain has never had a written constitution before, and this is their response.
The British people are entitled to take a view, whatever that view may be. It is a sign of the Government's total lack of self-confidence and substance that, at every level of our national life, they are failing our people. Their attitude on this subject says it all, yet again.
6.39 pm
The Leader of the House of Commons (Peter Hain): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Mr. Spring) again, as I used to do when I was Minister for Europe. He performed with his normal courtesy and skill. As I have been constantly accountable to the House for the past 17 months, during the period when I represented the Government at the Convention, I am grateful for another opportunity of being thus accountable—probably for the last time, as my role on the Convention has ended.
We got a good deal for Britain, protecting our key national interests and placing ourselves well, so that the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and their team can negotiate outstanding issues in the draft constitutional treaty during the forthcoming intergovernmental conference.
The right hon. Member for Devizes (Mr. Ancram) called for a referendum, a point echoed by many of his colleagues. May I refer him to sensible Conservative comments about a referendum? For example, on "The World at One" on 27 May this year, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) said:
- "I think there's no case for a referendum. Parliament's got to be left to do something and if Parliament can't analyse the ultimate version of this long new treaty . . . then Parliament isn't much use for anything."
- "are popular with unelected newspaper owners. Tories should oppose them . . . This Tory notes that the intellectually honest position of many of those in the forefront of the present campaign for a referendum is complete British withdrawal from the European Union."
Peter Hain: I want to reply to some of the points made in the debate before taking interventions.
The right hon. Member for Devizes made a point about NATO, but my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary had to point out to him that he clearly had not read the draft constitution text very well, as the same wording is used in article 40, paragraph 2, sub-paragraph 2 as is used in article 17, paragraph 1, sub-paragraph 2 of the existing European Union treaty. So we had another Tory porkie on that matter.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Denzil Davies) criticised the Government's advocacy and the way in which we had succeeded in achieving, in the draft constitutional text, a strengthening of the role of the Council of the EU. I am puzzled by that. He also criticised the achievement of the objective that an elected full-time president should chair the Council. I should have thought that he ought to support the institution that represents elected Governments and their heads, because the intergovernmental nature of the
EU has been at its weakest recently. The British objective to strengthen the intergovernmental process through the European Council and its Council of Ministers was set because we believe that nation states, not Brussels federalists, should lead Europe.I am surprised at the criticism, made in similar terms, from the Conservative Benches. Why do the Conservatives think that, until the very last day of the Convention, the federalists in Brussels fought like mad the proposal for a full-time elected president of the Council? It was because they saw it for what it is—a strengthening of the role of Governments. I should have thought that not only my right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli but all hon. Members would support that.
The right hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell) raised an important question about the publication of the White Paper. I am grateful that he did so. Publication depends a little on when the date for the beginning of the intergovernmental process is declared by the Italian presidency, but we shall publish it if we can, as the Foreign Secretary promised. I agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman that, for a period, we need to end constitutional tinkering in the EU; we need a period of stability and the present negotiations provide such an opportunity.
My hon. Friends the Members for Clydesdale (Mr. Hood) and for Caerphilly (Mr. David) raised important questions about the role of national Parliaments. My hon. Friend the Member for Clydesdale asked specifically about the role of the devolved Administrations. We have secured agreement that when the Commission brings forward a new proposal it is immediately e-mailed to national Parliaments, so that, for the first time ever, we have the chance to vet it. That is a big democratic advance, and I think that I was the only Government representative who argued for it. The proposal can then be copied on to the devolved Administrations so that their views, too, can be taken into account by Parliament.
My hon. Friend asked for full transparency and accountability, on which he made important points. That is exactly what the British Government have been arguing for and it is exactly what we have achieved: all legislation should be dealt with in public so that the process is transparent and accountable.
The right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) reminded us of the brilliant debater that he is—a much better debater than his successor. He called for a referendum, but perhaps there should be a referendum of Tory supporters on the leadership of the Tory party. We know why they will not call such a referendum: they are afraid of the result.
I thought that my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch (John Cryer) made an unworthy criticism of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart). The truth is that she has held herself accountable to the House constantly, often turning up to Standing Committees on these matters that have been poorly attended. I do not think that she should be criticised—[Interruption.] I shall withdraw if my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch wants to clarify that point.
John Cryer: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. I made no criticism, either explicit or
implicit, of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart). I said that the Convention process was not entirely accountable or democratic, but I made it clear that that was no criticism of my hon. Friend.
Peter Hain: I apologise to my hon. Friend.The point that I was making is that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston has been constantly accountable to the House, as have my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, my hon. Friend the Minister for Europe and I, in my role in the Convention. We have constantly attended Scrutiny Committees in both Houses, as my hon. Friend the Member for Clydesdale knows, and many debates have been held.
It is significant that the Convention process has been more transparent and thus more accountable to the people of Europe than any other process. Never before has the preparation for an IGC been negotiated in public in that way. I should have thought that hon. Members would welcome that.
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