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Peter Hain: Before I take interventions, I shall respond to the hon. Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow), who raised some important issues about the charter. The reason that we objected to the incorporation of the charter of fundamental rights in the treaty in 1999 is that the proposal then was simply to shove it into the treaty, such that it would have provided, in effect, an open door for the European Court of Justice, and, perhaps, the Commission behind it, to change our domestic law and thereby extend European competence and powers. We were not prepared to accept that. That is why, to stop it happening, we negotiated a strong horizontal clause in the charter, together with several other blocking mechanisms, including a reference to the commentary in the treaty—an important point to which the ECJ will have to pay due regard. After the final IGC negotiations, which my right hon. Friend will lead, we shall see whether we can accept the proposal.
Mr. Allen: When the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Mr. Spring), was winding up, he said that there is no gap between the Convention and the IGC; there is no room for manoeuvre—I hope that I am right in saying that. Can my right hon. Friend make it clear that Parliament can have a view on this matter and that my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is making provision for that? I hope that he and his colleagues will take notice of what the House has to say. I hope, too, that it will not be a case of the Conservatives taking their ball away if they cannot have their referendum. Later in his remarks, can my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House elaborate on the form that the pre-legislative scrutiny might take?
Peter Hain: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has already given the commitment that we will ensure that the House is fully involved. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, North (Mr. Allen) has made some valid proposals and we want to consider them carefully. The IGC process will take about nine months, so there will be plenty of opportunities to
debate the matter. The Foreign Secretary constantly makes himself accountable to the House; he is one of the most accountable Cabinet Ministers because he is a strong believer in House of Commons accountability.
Sir Patrick Cormack: The right hon. Gentleman, with his characteristic diffidence and charm, has been telling everyone what they should think and how brilliantly the Government have done. When the treaty is finally debated in the House, I may well even be on his side, but why is he afraid of putting it to the country? He is only afraid because he thinks he might lose. Will he, as the Leader of the House, give me a categorical answer to a question that he is equipped to answer? Will he give us an absolute guarantee not only that the treaty will be debated in its entirety on the Floor of the House, but that no guillotine will be imposed on it and, bearing in mind that so many of his own hon. Friends want a referendum, that there will be a free vote?
Peter Hain: I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman a guarantee that the treaty will be debated on the Floor of the House, as has been the case with all previous treaties. If he is saying that we should not have a programme motion in the normal fashion to take the debate through, I am afraid that I have to disappoint him.
Mr. Bacon: In arguing that we should not have a referendum, the right hon. Gentleman ignored the fact that not only Conservative Members, but Members representing Northern Ireland and Scotland, Liberal Democrat Members and many Labour Members, including those who take different views about political integration—I include the distinguished comments of the hon. Member for Nottingham, North (Mr. Allen) and the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field)—all think that we should have a referendum. Indeed, they believe, in the words of his hon. Friends' splendid amendment to the motion, that
- "the European Constitution must receive the endorsement of the people to be legitimate and binding".
I want to make some progress. The big picture is that Europe needs reform. As my hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton, South (Mr. Tynan) said, it has outgrown institutional structures, designed for six countries in the 1950s. There are 15 countries today and there will be 25 next year, with more to follow. That enlargement is a fantastic achievement, reunifying a Europe bitterly divided by the cold war and extending our zone of peace and security from 370 million people to 560 million. It will create the largest and richest single market in the advanced world—larger than the world's two biggest economies, America and Japan, combined—producing more opportunities for Britain: more trade, more jobs and more prosperity. It will also produce a safer, cleaner and better world for British citizens. That is the prize, but to win the prize we must will the means.
Europe must modernise. It must be more democratic; it must be more efficient; and it must deliver more for its citizens: more and better jobs, a better quality of life,
more stability and security, cleaner air and water, and safer food. So under our Government, Britain is engaged enthusiastically in the Convention process, to shape our kind of Europe—a Europe that is a union of nation states, not a federal superstate—and we won the argument hands down.Why else were the federalists so unhappy with the outcome? Why else did almost every European commentator, from Le Monde to El Pais, report a good outcome for Britain? The French radio station, RTL, lamented the shaping of "a great British Europe". The Belgian newspaper, De Standaard, commented:
- "almost nobody seems to be happy with the new constitution apart from Tony Blair".
The right hon. Member for Devizes cited President Prodi as part of his case on the European constitution. The president is another leading federalist, and what did he say? He said that the new constitutional treaty is
- "in some respects a step backwards."
The truth is that Britain always has been a leading European power, and it stands proudly as one today. Under our Government, we are not isolated, whinging on the fringe. We stand up for Britain's national interests by engaging positively, fighting our corner and shaping the new Europe. Unlike those desperate times when the Tories were in power, the Government have been confident in Europe, confident in our influence, confident in our arguments and confident of winning a good result for Britain.
When the official Tory representative on the Convention, the right hon. Member for Wells (Mr. Heathcoat-Amory), submitted his alternate Tory vision, he could find only six other Convention members prepared to sign up to it. [Hon. Members: "So what?"] Six out of 204 delegates. Those, like him, who do not want the new constitutional treaty genuinely do not want Britain to be in Europe. He has made it clear that their alternatives are renegotiation or associate membership, but they are vague and ill thought out. Their alternatives effectively represent a ticket out of the EU. They want to reduce Britain to second-class status in Europe.
Peter Hain: I think that Britain deserves first-class status. Just as new countries queue up to join, the Tories and the sceptics want Britain to leave. That is madness—and here is one of the maddest.
Mr. Cash: Will the Leader of the House explain why he voted with me on the Third Reading of the Bill that
enacted the Maastricht treaty? In other words, he adopted exactly the same position. Will he explain that now?
Peter Hain: There is no way that the constitution is the same as the Maastricht treaty. By the way, the hon. Gentleman voted for a referendum on the Maastricht treaty. The right hon. Member for Devizes voted against a referendum, because the Tory Government denied the people of Britain a referendum on the euro, which came through the Maastricht treaty.
The madness is also based on Tory porkies and Tory myths. Every time we knock down one myth, they produce another. Look at what the Tories and their tabloid allies have said when fulminating against the draft constitutional treaty in these past few months. They have said that we will give up our veto on tax. We have not, and we will not. They have said that we will have an army run from Brussels. We will not. They have said that we will pick up the bill for Europe's pension black hole. We will not. They have said that we will lose control of our own borders. We will not. They have said that we will be bound to obey a European foreign policy unreservedly. We will not.
The Tories and their tabloid allies say that the EU will take our seat at the UN. It will not. They say that British citizens will be sent to prison by EU judges. They will not. They say that we will all be forced to be European citizens. We already are European citizens. The Tories agreed to that in the Maastricht treaty, and a good thing too—it gives Britons travelling elsewhere in Europe rights because they are EU citizens. They say that European law will have primacy over national law. Shock, horror, sell-out, betrayal! That has been the case since 1957, under successive treaties endorsed by Tory Governments. They say that the EU will steal our North sea oil. Of course it will not. They also say that the new constitution is a
- "blueprint for a Brussels tyranny"
- "end of a thousand years of history".
What is this constitutional treaty really about? It is a simple and clear statement about what Europe is for; its aims and objectives; the rights of its citizens; and the powers and responsibilities of its institutions, which take forward the policies agreed by its member states. It will ensure that, after enlargement, the EU is more efficient, more effective and better able to tackle the issues that no country can solve alone, such as asylum, the environment and economic reform. It offers the prospect of stability in the way that Europe works.
Contrary to all that Tory and tabloid nonsense, the constitutional treaty will deliver a more democratic Europe, and it makes it clear in its very first article that the Union has only the powers that the member states give it. Let the House dismiss all that Tory prejudice and paranoia that Europe is about fiendish foreigners doing us over. We are confident that in the intergovernmental conference we will get a good result that makes the new Europe better and stronger: a new Europe in which the Government intend Britain to be a strong leader, not a weak whinger. I commend the motion to the House.
Question put, That the amendment be made:—
The House divided: Ayes 205, Noes 315.
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