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Mr. Chris Bryant (Rhondda): The hon. Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford (Mr. Whittingdale) said that we had been going through the Bill for some two years. I remember attending a meeting during my second day at the BBC in 1998 in which we debated how we could affect the Government's then forthcoming Bill on communications, so I have been engaged in the process for five years. There has been much talk of sinners repenting—incidentally, we are delighted that Conservative Members have repented their views on the national minimum wage—but I am more reminded of the quotation about the battle done.
The important point behind Lords amendment No. 1 and Government amendments (a) to (c) is that citizens' rights in society should be considered in addition to those of consumers. Many licence payers do not feel like citizens but subjects because the BBC, or whatever body designs the broadcasting ecology around them, often treats them as though they have no rights at all. I am struck by how important it will be for Ofcom to ensure
that the broadcasting ecology delivers for ordinary citizens and consumers when it puts the provisions of the amendments into practice.A matter of immediate concern faces many ordinary consumers and citizens throughout the country, especially those in rural and semi-rural areas where the BBC has made no Freeview service available and there is no provision for cable television. Such people and households had no choice about how to get most of the free-to-air channels unless they bought a digital satellite box and got the free solus card from the BBC. However, they might not get such a card anymore because the BBC decided last week to unilaterally withdraw from the agreement with other broadcasters to deliver all free-to-air channels to households throughout the country.
The problem for Ofcom will be the same as that faced by the Independent Television Commission. The ITC says that it does not have a role to ensure that ITV, Channel 4, S4C and Channel 5 are made available to households that have taken the free-to-air option via satellite television. About 1 million households are directly affected by the situation. If Sky chooses to switch off the solus cards in the next few weeks, those people might be unable to watch "Big Brother" or "Coronation Street" at all. Ironically, having gone down the digital television route, they will have to return to analogue thereby incurring the additional expenditure of buying a new aerial, costing in the region of £150 to £200, and, more importantly, undermining the Government's strategy of getting people to go digital so that we reach analogue switch off in the next five to seven years.
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It is vital that Ofcom takes the issue seriously in terms not just of delivering for consumers through competition rules, but of considering the needs of citizens to have access to a diversity of programming, especially news, from a variety of sources with a variety of voices. I hope that the amendments will enable Ofcom to do precisely that.
Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire): I am glad to have the opportunity to comment on the amendments. As other hon. Members observed, those of us who sat on the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee have spent at least 14 months on the subject. The amendments reflect the fourth recommendation of the Committee that there should be a hierarchy of duties and that the principal duty should reflect the necessity to further the interests of citizens and consumers. I am grateful that the Government have seen fit to take on board the substance of that recommendation.
Although the Secretary of State rightly did not bore us with the full process, when I moved an amendment in Standing Committee to reflect the views of the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee, the Government resisted the word "citizen", but they intended to accept part of our argument by including a reference to promoting the interests of the community as a whole. It is worth noting that they reflected that thought on Report, but they have rightly gone on to abandon their resistance to the use of the word "citizen". Lords amendment No. 9 defines
citizen as a member of public in the UK. As the Secretary of State set out, the terms in which Ministers have explained their amendments in lieu make it clear that that is not to be defined in the context of nationality, but as applying to any member of the public. That is an important provision, which I welcome.I also welcome the better regulatory principles, which are to be given substance and applied in all cases. That reflects recommendation 24 of the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee to introduce the Better Regulation Task Force principles and to apply them in all cases. It is good to see that. I thank the Secretary of State for taking that recommendation on board.
Members in another place might want to determine whether the substance of their aims has been achieved. I am certain that it has and, as the Secretary of State said, Lord Puttnam would no doubt concur. In so far as there are differences with the Lords proposals, it is possible that those could have given rise to difficulties. The respective interests of citizens and consumers would have been defined in cases before courts rather than by Ofcom, which can take a flexible approach to the merits of individual cases and is accountable directly to us in Parliament.
Members of another place, especially on Third Reading, said there was a lack of appropriate scrutiny of the Bill in this House. That is true to an extent, but it was not so much a case of whether the issues were raised in the House and Standing Committee, because in general they were; it was more a case of the extent to which the Government were willing to consider amendments, especially those with the backing of the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee. I believe that if the Opposition clearly have the better of the argument, the Government should accede to it. That happens pretty rarely. Although the Government regarded the pre-legislative scrutiny as having substantial merit and accepted 120 recommendations, they did not accept some of the most important recommendations. It has been a long time since then.
I share Lord Puttnam's view that it was a pity that Departments did not perceive the Bill as legislation that had made progress through both Houses in co-operation with members of the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee. Pre-legislative scrutiny might have been better in that respect, and should be so in future. If a future Committee is anything like the one in which we participated, its members will become thoroughly familiar with the content of the legislation and how it is intended to work, and issues will be raised in order to give better effect to policy and Parliament's intentions. Members of such Committees could be worked with to a much greater extent than I fear was the case for many months before, as the hon. Member for North Devon (Nick Harvey) said, the arithmetic in the other place made the Government feel that they had no choice but to co-operate positively and actively. The amendments clearly demonstrate the benefits that flow when that happens.
Mr. John Grogan (Selby): I welcome the Government's amendments on general duties. I particularly celebrate the use of the word "citizen", which has a lineage of at least 2,000 years. It is a progressive and egalitarian term. Now that we have created a precedent for its use in this context,
I very much hope that it can be used in other contexts and by other regulators. The Post Office regulator, Postcomm, would probably benefit from assuming some duties towards citizens and, indeed, consumers.As the hon. Member for North Devon (Nick Harvey) said, this has been something of a battle. It would be churlish not to recognise the role of their lordships in sticking to their guns on a cross-party basis. When the Bill left this House with the support of both Front-Bench teams, Lords of all parties, but led by Lord Puttnam, required a certain steel and determination in order to give us a chance to discuss these amendments. They used as a reference point the Puttnam committee report. I welcome the fact that the Government listened.
There is one point that I should like to explore a little more with the Secretary of State. She drew a distinction between consumers and the interests of service providers. The dual duty in favour of consumers and citizens puts Ofcom very much on the side of the little guy or girl as opposed to big businesses. I wonder whether she acknowledges that. Ofcom will be operating in the interests of ordinary members of the public and customers. It will represent the interests of businesses —whether big or small—only as customers of service providers. That gives a clear and welcome focus to Ofcom's work, and is very much in line with the Puttnam committee's original aims.
Tessa Jowell: I thank hon. Members on both sides of the House for their contributions. I endorse the points that have been made about the benefits, particularly for legislation such as this, of pre-legislative scrutiny. I hope that the lessons that have been identified as beneficial to the development of good legislation will be applied in future.
The Government have seriously engaged with the arguments that have been made from whatever source. Disputes in consideration of this Bill have not broken on traditional party political lines. That has been one reason why, especially in another place, we have engaged with such a large number of Members.
To pick up the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes, North-East (Brian White), the origins of the debate about citizens and consumers lie in debates in Committee in this House. The Government sought to respond to the well argued points by inserting in the Bill before it went to another place a reference to the community as a whole. That was for a simple technical reason. We were advised that "citizen" had, as my hon. Friend the Member for Selby (Mr. Grogan) has made clear, a specific and narrow use. We have overcome that obstacle, which is why "citizen" now appears in the Bill. I am glad that there is a broad welcome for that.
I am delighted that the proposed amendment to the general duties of Ofcom has attracted such wide support on both sides of the House. I commend the amendment to the House.
Government amendments (a) to (c) in lieu agreed to.
Lords amendments Nos. 4 and 6 to 10, 151 and 152 agreed to.
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