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Mr. Malcolm Savidge (Aberdeen, North): In the light of current evidence, does my right hon. Friend believe it possible that the UK Government and their allies may have overestimated the extent and immediacy of the threat from Iraq—for example, in respect of a restarted nuclear weapons programme, biological and chemical weapons stocks, the quantity and range of missiles and their speed of deployment?
Mr. Straw: On some of my hon. Friend's detailed points, I await the judgment of Parliament's Intelligence
and Security Committee, which will shortly appear. I can tell my hon. Friend, however, that the decision taken by an overwhelming majority of the House on 18 March to take military action is as justified today as it was on that day. I remind the House that the principal reason why it took that decision was the continued defiance by Saddam Hussein of the will of the UN and a judgment that he would continue to defy that will unless military action was taken. I also say—and we all have to think about this—that had we not acted as we did, the world would be a very much less safe place. The House needs to think about this: we would have seen a re-empowered and emboldened Saddam Hussein, who would have been a real and profound source of long-term instability in the region.
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle): Since no occupying power in the Mesopotamian area over the past 1,000 years has succeeded in persuading the Sunni, the Shia and the Kurds to co-operate, and if, as one of the Foreign Secretary's hon. Friends sensibly suggested, he is looking for an exit strategy, may I suggest the exit of the present Labour Government?
Mr. Robert N. Wareing (Liverpool, West Derby): My right hon. Friend has not referred to the search for weapons of mass destruction. Can he explain how it has been possible to offer rewards for information leading to the arrest of Saddam Hussein and members of his regime, but no such rewards have been offered to those with information leading to the location of weapons of mass destruction? I have a strong feeling that the money would be quite safe.
Mr. Straw: I think that the factual basis of my hon. Friend's question is not quite correct. I know that the Iraq survey group and the military authorities have been seeking the active co-operation of all those who unquestionably were involved in Iraq's weapons programmes.
Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham): Given the welcome aim of involving the United Nations more and effecting a rapid transition to Iraqi self-government, does not the Foreign Secretary think it a good idea to suggest a date by which there would be total withdrawal of our troops, to provide a stimulus for those trying to create an Iraqi Government, and to send a clear message to the terrorists that we do not wish to have an army of occupation there for long?
Mr. Straw: It is sensible to set a timetable for the transfer of responsibility and sovereignty to the Iraqi people, but it would be irresponsible for us to do that without taking the lead from the Iraqis, and without making a judgment day by day and week by week about whether the security situation justifies a withdrawal.
Chris McCafferty (Calder Valley): The whole House will join the Foreign Secretary in sending condolences to the families and friends of British victims in Iraq—but in view of the continual newspaper reports of the killing of ordinary innocent Iraqis because of the over-zealous reaction of American forces, can the Foreign Secretary
tell the House how many ordinary Iraqi men, women and children have died since the peace began—and if not, why not?
Mr. Straw: The reason why not is that I do not have the estimate to hand. Some of the estimates are very difficult to come by, but I shall see whether I can get an estimate and place it before the House.
Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham): Can the Foreign Secretary confirm the reports that a significant number of Wahabi fundamentalists have crossed into Iraq from Saudi Arabia since the war, and are a major contributory factor to the violence? Are the Saudi Government helping or hindering in dealing with that problem?
Mr. Straw: It is true that a number of extremists have come into Iraq from a number of the neighbouring countries. The Saudi Government have given excellent co-operation to the coalition provisional authority and the coalition forces, and I think that they will continue to do so.
Mike Gapes (Ilford, South): Will the Foreign Secretary remind the House that 500,000 children died as a result of the failed policy of containment, and that the Saddam preservation society on the Lib Dem Benches, who would have done nothing to get rid of Saddam, and the carping critics on the Tory Benches, should recollect that the policies that they supported in the past would have led to far more deaths of Iraqis this year to add to the 300,000 bodies that have already been dug up from the mass graves?
Mr. Straw: Terrible though those calculations are, I think that my hon. Friend is correct. Containment was not working. If we had not brought this matter to a head, my guess is that those who favoured some kind of deal with Saddam would have won the argument, and Saddam would have been re-empowered and emboldened to maintain and increase his reign of terror over his own people, in which it now turns out that hundreds of thousands—an estimated 300,000—died, as well as over the rest of the region.
The situation in Iraq today is not satisfactory, but we are working hard to improve it. However, in my judgment it is on any basis significantly better, and will be judged over time to be significantly better than under Saddam.
Mr. David Curry (Skipton and Ripon): All commentators refer to the increasing alienation of the Iraqi population because of what they see as the slow pace of reconstruction and the heavy-handedness in the response notably of the Americans. If there are increasing numbers of foreign troops and different nationalities in Iraq with many of whom the Iraqi people have no historical links, what steps will the coalition take to ensure that they understand that that is helping the reconstruction of their country and not merely helping to solve our military problem?
Mr. Straw: I pay tribute to the British troops operating in the south of Iraq, who have shown great
felicity and courage in getting alongside Iraqi people to try to build up their confidence, as they have in other theatres. On the whole, that is working. Sometimes they are engaged in straightforward conflict with particular groups of Iraqis because of criminals or terrorists operating against them. The most important things we can do to meet the aspiration to which the right hon. Gentleman referred is to secure a rapid transfer of power to the Iraqi people. That process has been started. As I spelled out to the House in my statement, 25 Iraqi interim Ministers have now been appointed and there is a governing council that is far more representative than any government under Saddam Hussein and which will increasingly take responsibility for the services that make a difference in the Iraqi people's day-to-day lives.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North): After five months of occupation, and now an increase in the deployment of British troops in Iraq, does the Foreign Secretary think it is now time to reconsider the closeness of British foreign policy to that of the Bush Administration, and perhaps declare some independence in our foreign policy, rather than following George Bush from war to war?
Mr. Straw: I could go through the areas with regard to which we fully support the United States and the European Union and those with regard to which we have differences of opinion, but I do not think that there would be any point. The simple fact of the matter is that in some areas of the foreign policy proposed by the Government and supported by the House, such as our approach to Iran and to Chairman Arafat, we happen to have disagreements with the United States, but even my hon. Friend would be well advised to recognise that overall for the security of the international community it would not be wise for Europe, the United Kingdom and the United States to get too far apart. His own constituents would suffer if we did.
Mr. George Foulkes (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley): The Foreign Secretary said that real progress on the ground in Iraq is being overshadowed and undermined by the atrocities. Does he agree that it is being underplayed by some people in the United Kingdom? He mentioned that all 240 hospitals in Iraq are functioning. The remarkable political pluralism that is represented by the governing council, if it is successful, could have an effect not just in Iraq but well beyond its boundaries. The last time my right hon. Friend made a statement mentioning these positive developments I looked in the newspapers the next day but there was no report of any word of it. Does he hold out any hope of its being reported tomorrow morning?
James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde): Labour Friends of Israel also visited the region before the recess and we met Abu Ala. We were impressed by his commitment to peace and his track record on that. At the time, there was great hope about the ceasefire on the Israeli side, but also scepticism that it might be an opportunity for the terrorists to regroup and strike again. Unfortunately, that fear was realised, and the terrible thing is that it reinforced the scepticism on the Israel side.
Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that it is vital for the Palestinian Authority to clamp down on and prevent terrorism—not to stamp out every incident, but to convince the Israelis that that is its intention? That is also vital for the Palestinian Authority, because it must be in control of its area. It is the first function of any Government to protect their civilians and to be in charge of their area.
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