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Mr. Morley: There are potential downsides to competition in the domestic water system. The Bill does introduce competition, but I think it right to adopt a cautious approach and, initially, to set a level that will benefit the very large consumers. Once experience of the competition has been gained and we are certain that it is not interfering with the environment, consumer protection and affordability, it will be possible to review the threshold in due course—I think a period of three years is being considered—to establish whether extending it can be justified. However, I feel that when we are dealing with something new that is as important as water supply, it is important to set an appropriate threshold.
The Bill gives new entrants opportunities for competition, allowing them to supply large commercial and industrial consumers that use more than 50 megalitres of water a year. That signals a new approach, and, although limited, the measure will give us a chance to assess how the extension of competition in the industry can best work. We would expect a review of the competition framework by the three regulators no more than three years after the provisions came into effect, which would include reconsideration of the 50-megalitre threshold. The Bill provides a power to alter the threshold if that is considered appropriate.
Mr. Peter Ainsworth (East Surrey): How does the Minister square one of the likely effects of the limited competition that he is introducing—a reduction in the price of water to very large companies—with his stated desire to reduce consumption?
Mr. Morley: Although efficiency of use may encourage consumption, I do not think that encouraging competition and lower prices necessarily encourages increased consumption. It is obviously in the interests of large water users to establish that reduced consumption and therefore reduce their costs.
The Bill contains a number of miscellaneous provisions, including provisions helping to enhance the protection of people and property. They include amendments to the Reservoirs Act 1975 to improve reservoir safety, and measures to enable flood defence organisation and funding to be streamlined.
The issue in part 3 that is likely to attract the most attention is water fluoridation. Including fluoridation in the Bill will enable local communities to make decisions about it. The current law gives water companies discretion on whether to agree to applications from strategic health authorities to add fluoride to local water supplies. That places too much responsibility on water companies to decide on what is essentially a public health issue when they do not feel qualified to do so. The Bill would place responsibility firmly in the hands of strategic health authorities, which would engage in consultation with local communities.
I emphasise that we are not seeking to put in place a central, national fluoridation programme. On the contrary, we believe that the choice should be made locally and that people should have that choice.
I understand from talking to Members that there are strong opinions and feelings on both sides of the argument. Reflecting that, I make it clear to the House that there will be opportunities on Report to discuss the issue and to vote on it. I assure the House that because of the strongly held views it will be a free-vote issue. Members will be free to listen to the arguments both for and against and to make up their minds accordingly.
Mr. James Wray (Glasgow, Baillieston): Can my hon. Friend tell me where chronic fluoride poisoning, dental fluorosis and skeletal fluorosis come from? Which substance causes them?
Mr. Morley: The Medical Research Council, York university and other countries have conducted a number of detailed studies on that issue. On Report, I will be joined by one of my hon. Friends from the Department of Health because this is a health issue. Hon. Members will have the opportunity to examine the evidence, put their arguments and listen to the arguments for and against. They can raise their questions at the appropriate time.
Mr. David Drew (Stroud): I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and I am very pleased that he has put it on the record that there will be a free vote. Some of us feel that it is inappropriate to discuss fluoridation in this Bill. If people are to vote on health authorities having the right to impose their will on water authorities, can he assure me that the reverse will also be true—that people who already have fluoridation will have the right to vote against fluoridating their water?
Mr. Morley: I am sure that all health authorities will listen carefully to the majority opinion in their areas. I speak as someone who lives in an area where the water is already fluoridated and has been for a very long time.
Norman Baker (Lewes): I can confirm that there will also be a free vote on the Liberal Democrat Benches. The Minister wants local communities to decide the issue, but the decision rests with the strategic health authority. Being strategic, the health authority is not a local body. Moreover, the health professions have, by and large, already declared themselves in favour of the measure. That is not an independent, neutral position. Surely he should involve elected local councillors, who already have scrutiny powers at county council level, if local communities are going to decide such matters.
Mr. Morley: Where strategic health authorities decide to consult, I am sure that the views of elected members and authorities will be taken into account along with other interests, which include the medical profession. The medical profession's views are important and should be heard. Many of its members are in favour because they have examined the evidence and considered the advantages and disadvantages of fluoridation.
Mr. Brian H. Donohoe (Cunninghame, South): Can the Minister say why the Government have changed
their position from that set out in the White Paper published on 6 July 1999, which stated that the matter should be transferred from strategic health authorities to local authorities?
Mr. Morley: An amendment was moved and carried in the other place. The issue will, of course, be considered in Committee. That might help those Members who wish to intervene. I do not want to go on for too long because many Members want to speak. There will an opportunity to debate the matter on Report, when Members can make their feelings known. I am also sure that there will be an opportunity for them to vote.
Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough): I am grateful to the Minister for the indication that he gave of the conduct of the later stages of the Bill. We hope that there will be time for a proper debate on that question on Report. Would not Government and therefore public money be better spent on NHS dentistry, not on mass fluoridation? In my constituency, there is a remarkable lack of NHS dental surgeries. I hope that the Government will concentrate on that issue between now and Report rather than on the policy behind clause 61.
Mr. Morley: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be able to look at the figures on the effects on children's dental cavities in areas where water is fluoridated and in those where it is not; he can make his mind up accordingly.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham): As always, the Minister's generosity gets the better of him; I am grateful. Given that a draft Bill has been in existence for nearly three years, how, in all candour, does he explain or defend the concentrated ambiguity of clause 89 on the subject of consultation? Just to give us a taste, can he tell us whether he thinks that it will be similar to, or very different from, the sort of consultation that the Government recently announced on constitutional reform?
Mr. Morley: The hon. Gentleman has been around for long enough to know that a Bill that starts in another place is amendable. The Bill has been amended as part of the democratic process, and right hon. and hon. Members will consider it properly in this House. As for consultation, that is matter for strategic health authorities in partnership with their local communities. I am sure that that can be dealt with in further detail in due course.
The Bill received general support in another place. We considered points that were raised there in the course of its passage, and important changes were made in respect of several issues, including fluoridation. The Government accepted the Opposition's recommendation that water conservation should be promoted across the public sector; consequently, clause 85 now includes a new duty on public bodies to give consideration to that matter. It was also agreed that the Environment Agency's existing duty to ensure that our water resources are used efficiently should be made explicit through what is now clause 75.
It was agreed that the economic, social and environmental considerations of water services are central to consumer interests. Therefore, the remit of the consumer council for water, which is covered in clause 38, has been extended to include a duty for the achievement of sustainable development. It is envisaged that the new consumer council will have a key role in decision making on water issues, and the Government accepted an amendment to clause 46 placing a duty on the authority to consult the council in relation to the exercise of its functions where appropriate.
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