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7.50 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Skills (Mr. Stephen Twigg): I thank hon. Members on both sides of the House for their contributions to an interesting and wide-ranging debate. I shall respond briefly to the specific points that they made on behalf of their constituents or more generally.
In a reasoned speech from the Liberal Democrat Front Bench, the hon. Member for Southport (Dr. Pugh) raised several issues. I should like to respond to one in particular. He expressed his support for the principles of the work load agreement, but suggested that we might ring-fence the money for that agreement to ensure that it is spent. That is precisely the wrong way for us to go. We want schools to be able to exercise their own judgment to ensure that the money is spent in a way that is relevant to their own particular needs.
My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich, West (Mr. Bailey) put a powerful case, which he just had a chance to reiterate, for the excellent progress that has been made in his constituency.
The hon. Member for Southend, West (Mr. Amess) criticised Liberal Democrats and Labour Members for talking about the previous Conservative Government and its record. That is a bit rich coming from someone who still reminds us about the winter of discontent. Nevertheless, he raised some important issues, particularly on the regulation of private tutors in relation to the sex offenders register. I promise to write to him about that.
In an important and interesting speech, my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Jonathan Shaw) reminded us that Ofsted says that we have the best teaching work force ever. He also talked about the importance of attracting more ethnic minorities into teaching and, beyond that, into leading positions within our schools. The debate suggests that that enjoys widespread support across the House.
The hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) made a thoughtful speech in which he focused on the retention of good quality teachers. That is clearly an important question that we need to address.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (James Purnell) made one of the best speeches of the debate in which he reminded us of the motivation of some Conservative Members in spreading cynicism about our public services. He praised the evidence of improvements that he has seen in his constituency; I join him in praising the excellent progress at Hyde technology college, particularly the results achieved by Bangladeshi pupils.
The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr. Turner) made an interesting speech in which he focused on some of the issues beyond funding. Hon. Members of all parties have a duty to address the balance of rights and responsibilities of which he spoke. He said that we should talk not about a crisis, but about problems. I accept that, and it is reflected in the Government amendment. There are problems, but the situation is not a crisis. The hon. Gentleman's thoughtful contribution bore that out.
My hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) reminded us of the legacy that we inherited from the Conservatives in 1997. The hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) explained some of the challenges in his constituency.
We recognise that there are difficulties and we accept our share of the responsibility for them. We want to work to ensure that we get it right in future, as my hon. Friend the Minister for School Standards said at the start of the debate.
David Taylor: My hon. Friend probably agrees with me that Conservative education policy is vacuous, innumerate, dishonest and self-serving. However, this year's settlement has caused genuine difficulties in Leicestershire, which has the worst-funded local education authority. Will he agree to receive a delegation from Leicestershire when the pattern for next year's expenditure is known so that we can reassure heads in North-West Leicestershire and elsewhere that their difficulties will be resolved by the change in direction?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. That was rather long for an intervention.
Mr. Twigg: I am happy to give my hon. Friend the commitment that he seeks to receive such a delegation.
The hon. Member for Southport set out some of the additional costs that have formed part of the picture of this year's funding, including £568 million extra to secure the teachers' pension scheme. Do the Opposition believe that it is wrong to provide that extra money to secure the teachers' pension scheme for the future? What about the extra money for national insurance costs that schools throughout the country face and that will support improvements in the national health service and better pay for teachers? Do they oppose better pay for teachers, for which teachers have argued for years? For 18 years, the Conservative party ignored teachers when they said that they wanted better pay. The Government have listened, acted and got the extra pay for teachers. That is part of the picture of school budgets.
Mr. Andrew Tyrie (Chichester): Will the Under-Secretary give way?
Mr. Twigg: No, I have only three minutes.
My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich, West talked about the official Opposition's collective amnesia. Let us compare the past six years with the previous 18 years. In 1979 to 1997, the number of teachers fell by 50,000. Between 1997 and today, there has been an increase of 25,000. That shows their record and our record. Spending on education as a proportion of gross domestic product was 5.3 per cent. in 1979–80. Yet in 1997–98, it was 4.5 per cent. If the Conservatives had maintained spending as a proportion of GDP at the level that they inherited from us in 1979, almost £50 billion extra would have been spent on education when they were in government. It has taken six years of a Labour Government to restore education spending to 5.3 per cent. We should be proud of that record.
Several hon. Members mentioned the importance of investing in school buildings. For decades, we failed to do that and we have seen crumbling buildings in communities throughout the country. As my hon. Friend the Minister said, we inherited a position whereby capital spending on schools in 1996–97 was less than £700 million for the entire country. This year, the figure is £3.8 billion—a fivefold increase in capital investment in our schools. That makes a genuine difference to the life chances of children in communities throughout the country.
As my hon. Friend the Minister said earlier, last year's Conservative policy guide stated:
- "Conservatives do not support the tax and spending increases this Government have announced."
- "We will not match Government spending plans."
We acknowledge this year's difficulties. We are not saying that everything in the garden is rosy. We are working with local government, with schools and with head teachers to ensure that we get this right for this year, next year and the long-term future. That is because our commitment is to education. On this side of the House, we put investment in schools and hospitals first; that is our priority. It is not the priority of the Conservative party. That is why I commend the Government's amendment to the House.
Question put, That the original words stand part of the Question:—
The House divided: Ayes 171, Noes 277.
AYES
Amess, David
Arbuthnot, rh James
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Bacon, Richard
Baron, John (Billericay)
Beggs, Roy (E Antrim)
Beith, rh A. J.
Bellingham, Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Bottomley, rh Virginia (SW Surrey)
Brazier, Julian
Brooke, Mrs Annette L.
Browning, Mrs Angela
Burnett, John
Burns, Simon
Burnside, David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Alistair
Butterfill, John
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Cameron, David
Campbell, Gregory (E Lond'y)
Campbell, rh Menzies (NE Fife)
Cash, William
Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clappison, James
Clarke, rh Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Collins, Tim
Conway, Derek
Cotter, Brian
Curry, rh David
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice & Howden)
Djanogly, Jonathan
Dodds, Nigel
Donaldson, Jeffrey M.
Doughty, Sue
Duncan, Alan (Rutland)
Duncan, Peter (Galloway)
Duncan Smith, rh Iain
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Flight, Howard
Flook, Adrian
Forth, rh Eric
Foster, Don (Bath)
Francois, Mark
Garnier, Edward
George, Andrew (St. Ives)
Gidley, Sandra
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Goodman, Paul
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian (Ashford)
Green, Matthew (Ludlow)
Greenway, John
Grieve, Dominic
Hague, rh William
Hawkins, Nick
Hayes, John (S Holland)
Heald, Oliver
Heath, David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh David
Hendry, Charles
Hermon, Lady
Hoban, Mark (Fareham)
Horam, John (Orpington)
Howard, rh Michael
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Jack, rh Michael
Jenkin, Bernard
Johnson, Boris (Henley)
Keetch, Paul
Kennedy, rh Charles (Ross Skye & Inverness)
Key, Robert (Salisbury)
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Kirkwood, Sir Archy
Knight, rh Greg (E Yorkshire)
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lansley, Andrew
Laws, David (Yeovil)
Letwin, rh Oliver
Lewis, Dr. Julian (New Forest E)
Liddell-Grainger, Ian
Lidington, David
Lilley, rh Peter
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter (M-Worcs)
McIntosh, Miss Anne
Mackay, rh Andrew
Maclean, rh David
McLoughlin, Patrick
Malins, Humfrey
Maples, John
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury & Atcham)
Mawhinney, rh Sir Brian
May, Mrs Theresa
Mitchell, Andrew (Sutton Coldfield)
Moore, Michael
Moss, Malcolm
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Norman, Archie
Oaten, Mark (Winchester)
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Öpik, Lembit
Osborne, George (Tatton)
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, James
Paisley, Rev. Ian
Paterson, Owen
Pickles, Eric
Prisk, Mark (Hertford)
Pugh, Dr. John
Randall, John
Redwood, rh John
Reid, Alan (Argyll & Bute)
Rendel, David
Robathan, Andrew
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Robinson, Mrs Iris (Strangford)
Robinson, Peter (Belfast E)
Roe, Mrs Marion
Ruffley, David
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Sanders, Adrian
Selous, Andrew
Shephard, rh Mrs Gillian
Shepherd, Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Keith (M-Norfolk)
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns & Kincardine)
Soames, Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Steen, Anthony
Streeter, Gary
Stunell, Andrew
Swire, Hugo (E Devon)
Syms, Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, John (Solihull)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Thurso, John
Tonge, Dr. Jenny
Trend, Michael
Turner, Andrew (Isle of Wight)
Tyler, Paul (N Cornwall)
Tyrie, Andrew
Walter, Robert
Waterson, Nigel
Webb, Steve (Northavon)
Whittingdale, John
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Wilkinson, John
Williams, Hywel (Caernarfon)
Williams, Roger (Brecon)
Willis, Phil
Winterton, Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Sir Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. David Wilshire and
Mr. Mark Field
NOES
Adams, Irene (Paisley N)
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Bob (Cov'try NE)
Allen, Graham
Anderson, rh Donald (Swansea E)
Atherton, Ms Candy
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, John
Bailey, Adrian
Baird, Vera
Barron, rh Kevin
Battle, John
Bayley, Hugh
Begg, Miss Anne
Benn, Hilary
Bennett, Andrew
Berry, Roger
Betts, Clive
Blackman, Liz
Borrow, David
Bradley, rh Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, Andy
Byers, rh Stephen
Cairns, David
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Caton, Martin
Cawsey, Ian (Brigg)
Challen, Colin
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Mrs Helen (Peterborough)
Clark, Dr. Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Clwyd, Ann (Cynon V)
Coffey, Ms Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cook, rh Robin (Livingston)
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Corston, Jean
Cox, Tom (Tooting)
Crausby, David
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Ann (Keighley)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Jim (Coventry S)
Cunningham, Tony (Workington)
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davidson, Ian
Davies, rh Denzil (Llanelli)
Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Davis, rh Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dawson, Hilton
Dean, Mrs Janet
Dobbin, Jim (Heywood)
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Brian H.
Drew, David (Stroud)
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff (Barnsley E)
Etherington, Bill
Field, rh Frank (Birkenhead)
Fitzsimons, Mrs Lorna
Flynn, Paul (Newport W)
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings & Rye)
Foulkes, rh George
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike (Ilford S)
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Roger
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grogan, John
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hanson, David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Havard, Dai (Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney)
Healey, John
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Stephen
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Heyes, David
Hill, Keith (Streatham)
Hinchliffe, David
Hodge, Margaret
Hoey, Kate (Vauxhall)
Hood, Jimmy (Clydesdale)
Hope, Phil (Corby)
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Alan (Newport E)
Howarth, George (Knowsley N & Sefton E)
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan (Braintree)
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jamieson, David
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Jones, Kevan (N Durham)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Joyce, Eric (Falkirk W)
Keeble, Ms Sally
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S.
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green & Bow)
Knight, Jim (S Dorset)
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, David
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Leslie, Christopher
Levitt, Tom (High Peak)
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Liddell, rh Mrs Helen
Linton, Martin
Llwyd, Elfyn
Lucas, Ian (Wrexham)
Luke, Iain (Dundee E)
Lyons, John (Strathkelvin)
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Stephen
McCafferty, Chris
McDonagh, Siobhain
MacDonald, Calum
MacDougall, John
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Rosemary
Mackinlay, Andrew
McNulty, Tony
McWalter, Tony
McWilliam, John
Mahmood, Khalid
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mandelson, rh Peter
Marris, Rob (Wolverh'ton SW)
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marshall, David (Glasgow Shettleston)
Marshall, Jim (Leicester S)
Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Martlew, Eric
Meacher, rh Michael
Meale, Alan (Mansfield)
Merron, Gillian
Miliband, David
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moran, Margaret
Morgan, Julie
Morley, Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Murphy, rh Paul (Torfaen)
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan (Wansdyke)
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
Olner, Bill
Organ, Diana
Owen, Albert
Pearson, Ian
Perham, Linda
Picking, Anne
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter (Burnley)
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris (Gravesham)
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Price, Adam (E Carmarthen & Dinefwr)
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Ken
Purnell, James
Quin, rh Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd (Portsmouth N)
Raynsford, rh Nick
Reed, Andy (Loughborough)
Reid, rh Dr. John (Hamilton N & Bellshill)
Robinson, Geoffrey (Coventry NW)
Rooney, Terry
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Roy, Frank (Motherwell)
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, rh Chris (Islington S & Finsbury)
Smith, John (Glamorgan)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Squire, Rachel
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Steinberg, Gerry
Stewart, David (Inverness E & Lochaber)
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Tami, Mark (Alyn)
Taylor, rh Ann (Dewsbury)
Taylor, Dari (Stockton S)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Taylor, Dr. Richard (Wyre F)
Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W)
Thomas, Gareth (Harrow W)
Thomas, Simon (Ceredigion)
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mark (S Derbyshire)
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Paul
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Tynan, Bill (Hamilton S)
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Ms Joan
Ward, Claire
Wareing, Robert N.
Watts, David
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Alan (Swansea W)
Williams, Betty (Conwy)
Winnick, David
Wood, Mike (Batley)
Woodward, Shaun
Woolas, Phil
Worthington, Tony
Wray, James (Glasgow Baillieston)
Wright, Anthony D. (Gt Yarmouth)
Wright, David (Telford)
Wright, Tony (Cannock)
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:
Vernon Coaker and
Mr. Fraser Kemp
Question accordingly negatived.
Question, That the proposed words be there added, put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments):—
The House divided: Ayes 269, Noes 169.
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