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Mr. Straw: I take the hon. Gentleman's main point that the looser the language, the more potentially dangerous it is, but that is true of any legislation. We have been scouring the draft treaty for infelicitous language, as well as language that is clear but with which we disagree, and we shall continue to do so.
Mr. Straw: Of course. I have sought to involve Parliament in these matters—as is its right and duty—to a far greater degree than it has been involved in the past. That is why we have had six debates on the issue, and why we have established the Standing Committee on the Intergovernmental Conference, which is meeting this afternoon at 5 o'clock. I should like to present my apologies, through you, Mr. Speaker, for my inattendance, because I shall be on my way to Tehran. We want suggestions on these matters from both sides of the House.
Mr. Ian Davidson (Glasgow, Pollok): During the discussions on the economic reform priorities, did the Minister have the opportunity to hear the German Government's proposals to cut pensions? Was the logical conclusion drawn that membership of the euro has enabled Germany to cut its pension system? Does he also regret the section in the third-last paragraph of his speech, in which he suggests that all those who have reservations about the creation of a European superstate are automatically in favour of withdrawal? Does he accept that that is a dishonest statement to make, and that it will not be made by him or any other Government spokesman in future?
Mr. Speaker: Order. I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman is capable of making any dishonest remark in the House. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will withdraw that suggestion.
Mr. Davidson: I withdraw it, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Straw: On my hon. Friend's first point, I do not have reservations about a European superstate, a federal state—I am against one. However, I think that people should follow the consistency of their own position. My complaint about the Conservative party's position is that, on the one hand, it says that it wants to remain committed to the European Union, while, on the other—as the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) has pointed out in an excellent pamphlet—the detailed policies that it is pursuing would take it straight down the road of associate status. The Conservatives should have the courage to spell that out. Norway is in that position, as are one or two other
countries. This is not a cost-free approach. I will send my hon. Friend a copy of that pamphlet for his delectation and information.So far as Germany is concerned, I discussed with Joschka Fischer in the margins why he was not going to be at the European Council. He was going to be in the Bundestag on Friday instead. The matter is for a sovereign nation state to decide. Most German commentators do not blame the euro for the problems facing the German economy, but instead blame far deeper structural and social problems, including a rigidity in their labour market.
Annabelle Ewing (Perth): The Foreign Secretary will be aware of the draconian proposals on cod stocks announced in Brussels today. The proposals threaten the very existence of the Scottish fishing fleet, which the Foreign Secretary will recognise is a vital Scottish national interest. Have the UK Government now intimated to the EU their intention to resist the constitutional entrenchment of fisheries as an exclusive EU competence, or should we in Scotland accept that the UK Government's claim today that they are pursuing a patriotic approach stops short at the border?
Mr. Straw: I know that the hon. Lady's party is trying to make a great issue out of that, but it is wrong and she is wrong. Articles I.12 and I.13 of the treaty do not entrench the division between marine biological resources, which is an exclusive competence, and fisheries excluding the conservation of marine biological resources, which is a shared competence. The treaty simply repeats what has been EU law for ever and a day, and the basis on which we joined the Common Market in 1973.
Mr. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North): My right hon. Friend will be aware of the serious concerns inside the Treasury about the proposed EU constitution. A recent press report quoted an unnamed Treasury insider as suggesting that
- "signing the Constitution in its current state is a non-starter. It's littered with Brussels generalities which would leave us at Brussels' mercy. Once signed it's too late."
- "view is that it should not be signed in its current form."
Mr. Straw: Far from being concerned about what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor says, I agree with him, as I agree with all my Cabinet colleagues, all of whom came together to set out the clear policy statement in the White Paper published on 9 September. I reassure my hon. Friend that the draft constitutional treaty is a starting basis for negotiations; it will not be where the negotiations finish. The draft treaty before the IGC will be put to the national Parliaments of member states, not the draft conventional treaty from the Convention.
Mr. Ian Taylor (Esher and Walton): The Foreign Secretary will have picked up from the two acerbic
comments that we just heard from two of his Back Benchers that the debate on the constitutional treaty will be lively. Those of us who firmly believe in the primacy of the House of Commons believe that this is where we should discuss it.I thank the Foreign Secretary for endorsing a pamphlet by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), which I published as chairman of the Tory Europe Network. It is excellent and I agree with it.
On defence, structured co-operation clearly needs to be properly financed. It cannot duplicate NATO resources because, frankly, the European powers by themselves do not have them. Will the Foreign Secretary tell the US ambassador that the US Government's behaviour was one way to undermine NATO when they effectively dismissed triggering article 5 in support of the United States after the events of 9/11? On top of the coalition of the willing, that led to the fragmentation policy pursued by the US against European NATO allies. That simply cannot be allowed to happen if NATO is to hold together and the European powers are to be cohesive with the Americans.
Mr. Straw: I will decline the hon. Gentleman's specific invitation. There has been considerable tension in some aspects of the transatlantic relationship over the past three years, not so much for us as for other EU member states. I think that there is now a sense that both sides of the debate wish to come together, as was reflected in the position on Iraq that was finally adopted in the Security Council.
As for structured co-operation, which is raised by article I.40.6 of the draft constitution, we accept that that needs to be amended, as does article I.40.7, which currently provides for a defence guarantee among the European Union.
Mr. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston): If Europe does not ratify the treaty that emerges from the draft, presumably we will fall back on Nice and the preceding treaties, together with the process of enlargement having taken place. With the greatest respect to my right hon. Friend, it seems to me that that would be a lawyers' paradise. How does he think that that would impact on the cost base of the enlarged European Union?
Mr. Straw: My hon. Friend is right to say that unless and until any draft treaty is ratified by all 25 member states, Nice and the predecessor treaties will apply. They will in any case apply for a period preceding ratification, which will be a long and complex process. That is not the end of the world. This emphasises my point about the treaty, which is that it, too, is not the end of the world. We happen to think that it is an improvement on the existing four overlaying and slightly incoherent treaties.
I cannot give my hon. Friend a precise idea of the cost, but I can say that this area of law will continue to be complicated and will provide an honest living for some of my friends who are still practising law for some time to come.
Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham): On the subject of economic structural reform, when will the Government
introduce the higher taxes on home ownership in Britain that they think are necessary to prepare the way for the euro?
Mr. Straw: The right hon. Gentleman obviously missed an excellent interview on this morning's "Today" programme with one of the Treasury Ministers—
Mr. Straw: The Financial Secretary to the Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton, West (Ruth Kelly), made an emphatic denial on behalf of the Chancellor.
Mr. Chris Bryant (Rhondda): The Foreign Secretary has been instrumental in binding together the European Union around a shared foreign policy on Iran, which is obviously paying significant dividends at this critical point. Does not that show that, often, the only way in which Britain can pursue its national interest on the world stage is by bringing the whole of the EU together around a shared foreign policy? Does my right hon. Friend still hope to see significant changes to article I.40, so that there is less ambiguity about the relationship with NATO?
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