| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Criminal Trials (Admissible Evidence)
8. Vera Baird (Redcar): What plans he has to make the products of telephone taps admissible evidence in criminal trials. [134165]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Paul Goggins): There are no plans to do so at present, although the House will be aware from previous debates that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has this matter under review.
Vera Baird : I am grateful for that answer. It is usually said that phone tap material cannot be admitted in court because of operational secrecy, but it is admitted in almost every other jurisdiction without apparent damage being done. Indeed, some British-based international criminals have been convicted here because the foreign end of their operation was tapped and the foreign taps were put into evidence here. In a recent case in Cleveland—my own police authority—there simply was no other evidence. Although the phone taps were somewhere between strong and conclusive, the case collapsed. We are trying to bear down on crime, so should not proper use be made of this valuable material?
Paul Goggins: My hon. and learned Friend, as ever, makes an interesting point, and it is one of those that the review to which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has referred will be taking into account. As she mentioned, the United States and most European Union countries already admit such evidence in the way that she suggests, but the balanced judgment that the review must make is whether telephone taps, if we allowed them to be used as evidence, would produce a
better outcome than the current system. Of course, the current system uncovers essential evidence that leads to prosecutions and, even more importantly, the prevention of serious crime. All those issues will be weighed in the balance in the review, which will report in due course.
Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): While I welcome the balance that the Minister is bringing to the issue, will he weigh in that balance the case of Major Milos Stankovic, whose career in the British armed services was seriously harmed by, I understand, American intelligence intercepts that were wilfully misunderstood? That led to his career being ruined when all he was doing was carrying out his proper duties as directed by the general for whom he was working for the United Nations in Serbia. That is a good example of the dangers of relying on such intercepts. Will the Minister bear that in mind during the review?
Paul Goggins: It is kind of the hon. Gentleman to show concern for somebody whose career allegedly was seriously damaged. The experience that he outlines to the House is of course the kind that will be taken into account by the review.
Mr. Chris Bryant (Rhondda): The Minister seems to have already answered his own question about whether the review will provide a change. In the light of the publication of Rio Ferdinand's telephone bills on the front page of many newspapers last weekend, may I urge my hon. Friend to ensure that there is strong security around the process of phone tapping? Will he also consider the issue of how text messages as well as telephone conversations are made admissible in court?
Paul Goggins: Again, all this will be taken into account by the review. It is important that we consider the role of text messages, which are a form of telephone communication. They will also be taken into account by the review, although bringing Rio Ferdinand into these considerations is probably slightly wide of the mark. However, you have not ruled so, Mr. Speaker, and I shall conclude there.
Police Authority Funding
10. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome): What his policy is on limiting police authority council tax increases. [134167]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Fiona Mactaggart): The use of reserve capping powers in England is a matter for the Deputy Prime Minister. We are clear about the fact that the trend in council tax rises is not sustainable, which is why the Government have announced that, if necessary, we may use our capping powers in 2004–05.
We hope that capping will not be necessary for any police authority. The public rightly expect continued improvement in policing services. I expect police
authorities to set budgets next year that ensure further improvements without placing excessive burdens on the local taxpayer.
Mr. Heath: That was an exercise in wishful thinking if I ever heard one. The police authorities themselves estimate that next year the average council tax increase will be 15 per cent. just so that they can stand still—and that comes on top of the 24.5 per cent. actual average increase last year.
The Minister cannot have it both ways. Is it her policy that there should be unacceptable increases in council tax, or is it her policy that there should be unacceptable reductions in police numbers?
Fiona Mactaggart: I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman wants the rates to be capped.
Central Government have substantially increased the resources available for policing. There has been a 30 per cent. increase since 1999–2000—an 18 per cent. increase in real terms. There has also been a substantial increase in the local contribution, partly because local communities have expected and demanded more policing. Moreover, the Government have delivered more police officers on our streets: there have been 155 extra officers in Avon and Somerset in the last few months alone.
Mr. Peter Pike (Burnley): Along with other Lancashire Members, I met representatives of Lancashire police force on Friday. While welcoming all that the Government have done in so many respects over the past few years, they gave us a blueprint of what they believe Lancashire policing needs in the years ahead. It would mean a massive increase in the police budget.
Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem with financing the police by means of council tax is that people tend to look at the total tax demand and the overall increase? In my area there are three tiers: the police authority, Lancashire county council and Burnley district council. The gearing of the tax was worked out following the Ribble Valley by-election—which Labour lost many years ago—to replace the poll tax, and has resulted in an unfair system of taxation.
Fiona Mactaggart: My hon. Friend is right. As he will recall from his experience as a local authority leader, it behoves an administration to put the best possible case for extra resources, and I am sure that that is what his local police force has done. He is also right to point to the consequences of gearing, whereby an extra 1 per cent. on the council precept for police spending requires a 4 per cent. increase in the amount charged to the local citizen. That system was introduced by the Conservative party, and the citizens of my hon. Friend's constituency are still suffering as a result.
Mr. David Cameron (Witney): Is not one of the factors pushing up the police element of the council tax, especially in the south of England, the difficulty of recruiting and retaining officers? Is that not made even more difficult when officers are poached by forces in lower-cost areas or by the Met? I know that the Minister took an interest in this matter in her former incarnation.
What thought has she given to a system of transfer fee payments, whereby the Thames Valley force and others in the south of England could at least recoup some of the cost of training those officers?
Fiona Mactaggart: The hon. Gentleman will know that, as a constituency Member, I am concerned about that. As a result of my concern, and concern expressed by chief constables in the south-east, additional allowances of £2,000 were introduced for Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey and Thames Valley for officers recruited after the 1994 change in the payment system, and allowances of £1,000 for those in Bedfordshire, Hampshire and Sussex. That is one way of helping authorities to recruit and retain officers. We have also established the 30-plus scheme to encourage officers to stay on so that forces can retain experienced members.
We do not intend to pursue the hon. Gentleman's proposal on transfer fees, but we will work with police forces to help them deal with recruitment and retention issues. That has already proved successful, which is why we now have record numbers of police officers in forces throughout the country.
Prison Education
11. Lawrie Quinn (Scarborough and Whitby): What steps he is taking to increase the opportunities for prisoners to find employment after release. [134168]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Paul Goggins): The Prison Service is investing £14.5 million a year in its custody to work initiative. A growing partnership with Jobcentre Plus has led to a number of initiatives, including the extension of employment and benefits surgeries across the prison estate.
Lawrie Quinn: I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Does he agree that often it is the probation service that is at the front end in terms of rehabilitating former offenders and getting them back into proper employment, and that the problem that they often face is that the key skills, the literacy and numeracy skills, that they need to undertake a profitable existence in society are lacking? Has the Home Office any plans to talk to learning and skills councils to try to generate local partnerships with organisations such as the probation service in Scarborough and Whitby, which is doing very well and could do even better with a stronger partnership in that respect?
Paul Goggins: I can confirm that the probation service is seeking to develop partnerships of that kind, as is the Prison Service. Last year, 40,000 literacy and numeracy qualifications were gained in prison. Indeed, last year, one in 10 of every basic skills qualification gained anywhere in the country was gained in a prison. Better qualified people coming out of prison stand a better chance of getting a job and staying out of trouble.
Mr. George Osborne (Tatton): As the Minister well knows, I have the second largest female prison in my constituency and, despite the best efforts of local people, too little is done to help those female prisoners on their
release into the community, often in the Manchester area. Does he agree that we need to do much more to help female prisoners, whose lives are often a complete mess before they go to prison? What initiatives has he considered undertaking as the new Prisons Minister?
Paul Goggins: Women leaving Styal prison and indeed prisoners leaving any prison need a great deal of support, sometimes appropriate drug treatment or mentoring support, for example, but in particular they need help with education and training in order to get their lives back in order and to enhance their opportunities for gaining employment and a wage that will take them increasingly away from crime.
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West): Education is key to rehabilitating prisoners on their release. The last annual report of Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons stated that the amount spent per capita on young people in the secure estate was £1,800. That compares with an equivalent figure for secondary schools of £3,200. Even allowing for a different way of calculating those figures, the discrepancy is immense: per capita, only about 60 per cent. of what is spent in secondary schools is spent in the secure estate. Will my hon. Friend look into that discrepancy and address the problem?
Paul Goggins: It is unfair to make that direct comparison. I think that my hon. Friend admitted as much, but it is important that we continue to increase the amount of education and training that is available for juveniles in custody, and we continue to do that.
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield): The Minister said that good education and training programmes could be delivered in prison. Does he agree that it becomes impossible to deliver such programmes in an overcrowded environment? As the prison population at 74,000 is 8,000 over the certified normal accommodation, and as the Government's own projections are that, by 2006, on a conservative estimate, it will rise to 88,000, with only 1,720 places currently projected in the pipeline, how on earth are we going to prevent a serious crisis that will make training and education impossible?
Mr. Julian Brazier (Canterbury): Answer.
Paul Goggins: I will answer the question, which is that at the moment we are expanding the prison estate by adding 2,800 places in existing prisons, building two new prisons and making use of home detention curfew. About 3,600 people are currently on home detention curfew who otherwise would be in prison, so we are constantly looking at the size of the prison population and we are taking all the necessary measures to deal with those pressures.
James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde): Does my hon. Friend agree that community sentencing can play a key role in helping to rehabilitate people because they can develop new skills while helping their community, and that it is a win-win situation for the community both
because it gets something back from prisoners and because it can see those people putting something back into the community to make up for their original crime?
Paul Goggins: I agree absolutely. I have made it clear on many occasions that one of the tasks that we face is rebalancing correctional services, so that we make much greater use of community penalties. They can, with the right people, have a great impact. We should be using tagging as much as possible, for example, in association with other forms of intervention such as drug treatment, better education and so forth, to deal with all the people who have gone to prison for very short periods far more effectively in the community.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |