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Ann Winterton: On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Will the Minister reconsider her words? I did not say that reclassification was legalisation. I was asking her a question and making a point about what young children believed, according to recent polls.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): That is not a point of order for the Chair. It is a matter for debate, and the Minister will have heard what the hon. Lady said.
Caroline Flint: I am delighted that the hon. Lady's remark should be on the record, and I shall make sure that I use it extensively.
My point is that young people form their views about our drug laws according to the messages that they receive from people in positions of responsibility. Unfortunately, the view has been expressed continually—I have read it myself, and heard hon. Members repeat it—that reclassification is somehow about legalisation. We must work hard to deal with that, but young people know about drugs and they know people in their communities who take drugs. They may have rather more information than we might consider appropriate, but they are informed by their peer groups. We cannot attempt to influence young people if we do not have a credible message.
Angela Watkinson (Upminster): The Minister has been generous about giving way, but does she accept that downgrading cannabis from class B to class C will lead to an increase in use? Does she agree that, because of its gateway properties, the use of cannabis will in due course lead to the greater use of hard drugs such as cocaine and heroin?
Caroline Flint: I do not think that the evidence for that stacks up. We should view the position as it currently is, and drug use has increased. That applies to class A and class B drugs. We have not had a strategy that has worked, and in particular we have had no strategy to which young people are prepared to listen. That is what we are trying to deal with.
As I said earlier, I believe and the Government believe not just that we need better information and education, but that reclassification will provide an opportunity to
introduce a consistent and properly thought out regime for the policing of cannabis in line with its status as a class C drug. As I also said, we have introduced proposals in the Criminal Justice Bill to retain the power of arrest for the possession of cannabis; but following extensive debate during the Bill's passage through this House and another place, the Government have agreed to table an amendment providing for the power of arrest not to apply to other class C drugs such as tranquillisers and anabolic steroids.Over the past 18 months, the Association of Chief Police Officers has worked hard to compile guidance for forces on the policing of cannabis. It published the guidance on 12 September. I pay tribute to the constructive way in which it approached its task, and to the end result, which is very clear and straightforward.
Under the guidance, which applies to all persons aged 18 and over, there will be a presumption against arresting a person who is found in possession of cannabis. A police officer may, however, arrest when a person is smoking in public view, when a person is locally known to have been repeatedly dealt with for possession of cannabis, when there is a locally identified policing problem or when the person in possession is in the vicinity of a school or other premises used by young people. It is important for people to read that guidance, and to see how clear and straightforward it is.
Mr. Mark Oaten (Winchester): Can the Minister justify the treatment of class C drugs in a different way when it comes to arrest?
Caroline Flint: We considered the way in which the other class C drugs are used and provided. Having listened to the debates here and in the other place, we felt that the issue was not clear-cut enough for those drugs to be included in the same category as cannabis.
The ACPO guidance provides for people under 18 to be dealt with under the statutory warning scheme set out in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. In most cases a formal reprimand will result for a first instance of cannabis possession. It will be administered at the police station. That is very important. We want to engage young people who are using illegal drugs such as cannabis, in order to establish whether there is any misuse problem.
Over the past few months, I have been pleased to observe how, through arrest referral, the police on the front line are working with their drug action teams and referral workers to tackle issues related to arrest and charge. Expertise shared with the police and others will make it possible to establish whether a young person has an underlying problem that needs to be investigated, and whether that person needs to be referred for appropriate help.
The proposed policing regime must not be misinterpreted as toleration of unrestricted public use of cannabis without consequences. It is not, as one Member suggested, a "baby step" towards legalisation. The overall regime for policing cannabis possession will ensure that action is properly taken by the police against someone who is causing a problem or who needs help, while avoiding the needless charging of large numbers of young people. It makes sense for parents as well as law enforcement.
The regime will also enable the police to redeploy their resources for the tackling of more serious offences, including dealing in the class A drugs—heroin and crack cocaine—that do the most harm. Last year's Lambeth experiment provided good evidence that when police resources are deployed to key priority areas, results can be achieved. During that pilot, the number of arrests for class A dealing offences increased by some 10 per cent.
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall): I thought the Minister might get round to the Lambeth experiment at some point. In fact, were not more people attracted to hard drugs because of a feeling that there was no policing in relation to drugs generally? People who were not normally likely to be in contact with hard-drug criminals were put in contact with them because of their easy access to cannabis.
Caroline Flint: Many issues arose during the Lambeth experiment. As I hope my hon. Friend recognises, it led to a lot of joined-up discussion among a number of people and agencies—MPs, local authorities, the drug action teams, police and others—about how to tackle drug misuse in communities. The ACPO guidance has given us a clearer understanding of how cannabis use in particular can be better policed and dealt with.
Dealing in any illegal drug remains a serious crime. I have already mentioned an increase in the maximum penalty for dealing in a class C drug from five to 14 years' imprisonment. The penalty for dealing in cannabis will remain at its current level following reclassification.
There are many different views in the House on the correct response to the cannabis issue. Some Members advocate complete legalisation, arguing that it would cut the link between young users and criminal dealers. As I said earlier, the Government believe that that would inevitably lead to a massive increase in the use of cannabis and in health problems. Others believe that cannabis should remain a class B drug, arguing that it is a gateway to class A drugs, that it is smoked in higher concentrations than it was 20 or so years ago, and that it may be linked to mental illness and lung cancer. There has been a huge debate on those issues.
The issue of whether cannabis is a gateway to class A drugs has been debated for many years. The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs looked at that and concluded that no causal link had been established, since many other factors act as gateways. I said a bit about that earlier in my speech. As for the suggestion that cannabis smoked today is up to 20 times as strong as that smoked 20 years ago, I have already pointed out that that does not match the evidence that the Forensic Science Service has analysed from cannabis seizures.
Research on a possible link between cannabis use and the development of mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, was published in the British Medical Journal as recently as last November. The advisory council considered the issue in depth, but concluded that no clear causal links had been demonstrated. On the other hand, the council believed that cannabis use could unquestionably worsen existing schizophrenia. It will
continue to monitor any research developments, but it is important to distinguish between worsening and causing mental illness.
Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle): Will my hon. Friend give way?
Caroline Flint: I want to continue my speech, as I am conscious of the time that I have already taken up. [Hon. Members: "He is on your side."] In that case, I may change my mind.
As for the possible link between cannabis use and the development of lung diseases, clearly the smoking of any substance is dangerous and a real health risk. However, those who seek to draw inferences from the number of premature deaths caused by tobacco smoking need to be very cautious. While the smoking of cannabis is undoubtedly harmful, it should be borne in mind that in general cannabis users smoke fewer cigarettes per day than tobacco smokers and that most give up in their thirties, thus limiting the long-term exposure that we know to be the critical factor in cigarette-induced lung cancer.
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