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Mr. Hain: My hon. Friend makes his point with characteristic vigour, and it is similar to that made by the hon. Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow), but there is also an additional point—we as the Labour party have addressed this matter by changing the rules under which Select Committee membership is decided. The parliamentary party now has an opportunity to consider names and make a decision. Perhaps that is a practice that other parties in this House might follow.
Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan): There are other parties in the House that would love to follow that practice, but unfortunately do not have fair representation in the membership of Select Committees, as the right hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook) conceded on many occasions when he was Leader of the House. Has the right hon. Gentleman considered in proposing this extension of patronage the fact that no minority party in the House has a Select Committee Chairman, although they would be entitled to one in proportional terms, given the number of Select Committee Chairmen and the percentage of the composition of the House that is accounted for by minority parties? Will he alter these clear inequities before introducing measures for extending patronage?
Mr. Hain: I reject entirely the suggestion that the proposal is about extending patronage. It is a matter for the House to decide. Indeed, the House made its decision last year and requested that the Senior Salaries Review Body look into the matter. I am now following that up. I cannot see what there is to do with patronage in the question whether Select Committee Chairmen should be rewarded more fairly. As to how Chairmen are selected, the Committee of Selection is aware of the concerns of minority parties and is looking at them.
On 14 May last year, following a debate on the Modernisation Committee's report, the House resolved that
- "the Review Body on Senior Salaries should be invited to consider what additional remuneration is appropriate for chairmen of select committees."—[Official Report, 14 May 2002; Vol. 385, c. 723.]
There are two motions on the Order Paper. The first expresses the House's opinion on the matter; the second is an "effective motion" that is designed to give effect to the first "opinion motion" and is required in order that the Queen's recommendation can be signified to the Government expenditure that the motion will entail—in this case, the increased Exchequer contributions to Members' pensions. An explanatory memorandum has been made available in the Vote Office.
I turn first to the amount that would be paid. The motion follows the SSRB in proposing that the pay of a Member who is a qualifying Chairman should be increased by £12,500 a year for the period during which they are Chairman. The motion provides for the increased salary to be uprated annually in the same way as Members' pay. The SSRB said that it has taken "a cautious initial approach" to Chairmen's pay and has announced its intention to revisit the issue of the pay of Committee Chairmen as part of its continuing fundamental reviews of parliamentary pay and allowances.
The intention is that the additional rate of Members' pay paid to Chairmen should be taken into account when calculating Members' pensions. The additional rate of pay would be treated for pension purposes in a similar way to Ministers' pay. If the House agrees to that principle today, I will bring forward regulations as soon as possible to amend the statutory instrument that contains the rules for the parliamentary contributory pension fund. The intention is that the regulations will have effect backdated to the beginning of next Session, so that Chairmen's pay would, in effect, be pensionable from the beginning. I understand that the chairman of the trustees is content with what is being proposed.
The House authorities have calculated that the cost of implementing the motion—based on payment of £12,500 to 25 Committees—will be in the region of £420,000 a year, including employer's pension and national insurance contributions, but not administration costs. If any qualifying Chairmen were not to take up the payment, the total cost would, of course, be reduced.
The motion follows the SSRB's recommendation in proposing that Chairmen's pay be limited to the Chairmen of the departmental Select Committees appointed under Standing Order No. 152 and seven externally focused cross-departmental Select Committees—the Environmental Audit Committee, the European Scrutiny Committee, the Public Accounts Committee, the Public Administration Committee, the Regulatory Reform Committee, the Joint Committee on Human Rights and the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.
Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield): As the Leader of the House will know, as Chairman of the Procedure Committee I tabled an amendment that was unfortunately not selected. Bearing in mind that the Procedure Committee was not included among the number of Committees whose Chairmen were to receive remuneration under the Liaison Committee's report, will the Leader of the House reconsider the matter at an early date? Given that my own future time in the House is limited, I do not perhaps have a long-term vested interest, but I believe that the work of the Procedure Committee is very important to the House—and we do travel as part of our responsibilities.
Mr. Hain: I am very sympathetic to the hon. Gentleman's point of view. The Procedure Committee is indeed an important Committee that plays a crucial role; and the hon. Gentleman's role is particularly distinguished. I am sure that the matter will continue to be considered. The Modernisation Committee can, of course, revisit it; and he, as a member of that
Committee, can make further representations. I am equally happy to receive such representations from others.The original Modernisation Committee report and the report of the SSRB were explicit in their recommendation that the additional salary should reflect the extra work undertaken by those Committees that are actively involved in the scrutiny of Government.
Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield): Although we all appreciate the work of the SSRB, many of us, including me, gave evidence to the Committee that it was not a salary that Chairs particularly wanted, but extra help to back us up in fulfilling our responsibilities. When I became Chairman of the Select Committee on Education and Skills two and half years ago, I used all my staff and parliamentary allowance, much of which was diverted to my work as a Chairman. What we really need is extra capacity for help in the office, not a salary.
Mr. Hain: My hon. Friend's point has been recognised, and extra resources are coming into Select Committees. However, that is not an alternative to rewarding Chairmen properly: it is a complement, or a parallel measure, to strengthen Select Committees. The point of the exercise is to reward those who, quite properly, place Ministers such as myself under scrutiny. We want to strengthen the democratic basis of the House of Commons and the role of scrutiny, and that is precisely what this measure achieves.
I understand that some Members are keen to recognise the contributions made by those in other positions in the House, as did the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton). Although there may be a strong argument for such financial recognition, the motions reflect the recommendations of the Modernisation Committee, the decision of the House last May, and the opinion of the SSRB.
Pete Wishart (North Tayside): Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the likely response of the public to this extension of payment to certain Members of the House? He will be aware that when the Scottish Parliament awarded an extra payment to its Members, a public outcry followed. Does he not fear that there will be a similar outcry in this case?
Mr. Hain: There is always a reaction in the media and elsewhere when such matters are discussed, but this merits fair and balanced consideration, especially given that the rate was decided by an independent review body that was not influenced by the Government or by me, as Leader of the Commons. The SSRB, reflecting the House's decision that this was a proper matter for award, recommended a level of remuneration. I think that most members of the public would recognise that Select Committee Chairmen increasingly do an onerous and important job in holding the Government to account, especially a Government with as large a parliamentary majority as ours.
In my written statement announcing publication of the SSRB's report, I reported that I had asked the Chairman of the Committee on Standards and Privileges whether his Committee would look into the matter of Chairmen's outside interests. I am very
grateful to the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire (Sir George Young) and his Committee for their work. The motion endorses the Committee's recommendation that there should be no question of, nor any appearance of, any double payment for outside activity arising primarily as a result of the chairmanship. If the House agrees to that principle, the Committee has said that it will develop guidelines for Chairmen.The motions clarify when Chairmen's pay should be paid—that is, from the day on which a Member is elected Chairman of a qualifying Committee or, for those already serving as Chairmen, from the beginning of next Session until the day on which he or she ceases to hold the post. Ministers and other officeholders would be excluded from payment, as would those who served as Chairmen for less than one day. In case unforeseen circumstances arise, it is proposed that the Speaker be given authority to interpret the provisions and to make rules for their implementation.
I am sure that Members on both sides of the House would support the view that the scrutiny Committees add to Parliament's ability to achieve accountability from Government. The Government are keen to promote and facilitate changes that enhance scrutiny and the public perception of Parliament. The motions before the House reflect recommendations of the Modernisation Committee and the SSRB that are designed to achieve these ends. However, the decision is, of course, one for the House, not for the Government. It is in that spirit that I table the motions for debate and decision by the House.
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