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Mr. Hain: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing to the House's attention the fact that there was a 20 per cent. Labour vote in Folkestone and Hythe at the last election. Now, of course, that Labour vote will be carefully considering the best way of removing the leader of the Conservative party.
I genuinely echo the hon. Gentleman's generous comments about the shadow Leader of the House. He is a proud parliamentarian—the hon. Gentleman and I share that with him. Although we have our differences, that is the key part of his role, and we respect that.
As for the hon. Gentleman's request for a debate on the usual channels, I am afraid that that is typical of the Liberal Democrats, who never expect to be in government—
Bob Russell (Colchester): Is that why you switched?
Mr. Hain: As a result, they do not take the usual channels seriously. Does the hon. Gentleman want his own Chief Whip cut out of the usual channels? The Whips play a valuable role in making sure that the business of the House goes forward: he should seriously reflect on that.
Mr. Purchase : The Leader of the House mentioned today's 0.25 per cent. movement in interest rates. Will he ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to come to the Dispatch Box next week to give the House his view on the effects that that change might have on manufacturing industry? We all accept that the high street and the housing market may be in need of a small increase in interest charges, but I urge upon my right hon. Friend the importance of ensuring that any fiscal measures at the Chancellor's disposal are used quickly in aid of our manufacturing industry.
Mr. Hain: First, I acknowledge my hon. Friend's considerable expertise and interest in manufacturing. He has long been an advocate of a strong manufacturing sector, as have I and many other Members of the House. He will know and be encouraged to note that a survey published only this week shows that growth in manufacturing is at its strongest for four years. The Government have created the economic stability which underpins manufacturing that has put it in a good position to resist the downturn in international trade and in a better position than many other competitor countries.
The quarter per cent. rate rise will be considered in its broad context. It shows an economy that is strengthening. The raising of the interest rates by the Bank of England shows that what it wanted to do was to ensure that the stability that the Government have locked in remains while the economy continues to grow and grow at a faster rate. That is welcome news for manufacturers, in terms of bigger markets and the growth that underpins them.
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South): The Leader of the House will be aware that we are looking forward to an election in Northern Ireland. Will he put it on his horizon that it might be wise for legislation that affects the whole nation—for example, disability legislation and issues of that nature—to be kept before this House, particularly if a Government is not formed in Northern Ireland? In that way, the people of Northern Ireland will get the benefits that they should get as part of the United Kingdom.
Mr. Hain: Legislation such as disability legislation will have to be considered in terms of what is devolved and what is properly reserved for Westminster. I will certainly bear the hon. Gentleman's point in mind, and I am sure that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will have noted it too.
Julie Morgan (Cardiff, North): I know that my right hon. Friend is aware of the plight of the Allied Steel and Wire workers who came to Westminster earlier this week to meetings arranged by my hon. Friends the Members for Cardiff, West (Kevin Brennan) and for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt). Is there nothing that he can do to get us out of this impasse? It is outrageous that the steelworkers have paid into the pension fund all their life and now are entitled to nothing. Is there no way forward that he can find that will prevent them from having to go to court to try to seek what is rightfully theirs? Can he not implore Ministers to get together to find some way out of this disgraceful situation?
Mr. Hain: I agree that it is a disgraceful situation. Successive Ministers have met delegations from Allied Steel and Wire and I commend my hon. Friend and other Cardiff Members for the way in which they have fought the cause of these workers who have been robbed of their pensions. She will appreciate that the Government have to consider the knock-on effects for other similar situations and the law in this respect. One reason why we are introducing new legislation, following the Green Paper on pensions reform, is precisely to address the plight of such workers who have been so badly treated on their pensions.
Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde): Will the Leader of the House consider asking the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to come to the House and make an early statement? This week part of the trial dealing with bovine TB was stopped. Since 1999 the Government have spent £158 million on dealing with this scourge, including £45 million on the culling trial. The cessation of part of this trial has left the world of agriculture in a state of great confusion. The future is unclear and we need a statement on that. Will he bear in mind the fact that, also this week, we have seen the beginning of the end of parts of the agencies that serve DEFRA, under the Haskins review? The House has not heard the details of it and the time is ripe to probe it.
Mr. Hain: The Haskins review has just reported and in due course, following consideration by the Secretary of State, who will want to reflect on it, she will report to the House. I am aware of the problem of bovine TB, as is she, and we are monitoring it closely and intend to keep it under supervision.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover): Can the Leader of the House tell us when we will have a further debate on the new deal? Now that it has been a success in providing more stable employment in certain areas, perhaps it could be introduced to political parties as well. Some of us just cannot understand why there is not an agency to which political parties can go, to stop this business of having two-year supply leaders of the Tory party.
Mr. Hain: That is a novel suggestion, and I shall certainly draw it to the attention of the Secretary of State. Obviously, it is of great concern—I am sure that it will be of interest to the whole House—that the official Opposition want to abolish the new deal, and that the new leader of the Conservative party is wedded to that policy. I am sure that, when my hon. Friend's proposal is considered, that issue will also be considered. Nearly 500,000 people have been brought into work and trained for work opportunities under the new deal, and it would be criminal to scrap it. That will be one of the issues to be contested at the next general election.
Hywel Williams (Caernarfon): Will the Leader of the House make time for a debate on the lessons to be learned from the devolved bodies about scrutiny? I ask this in the light of the constitution unit's report, which shows that those bodies are better at keeping in touch with the public, and that pressure from their Opposition parties is more likely to lead to change by the Executive. Would there be lessons to be learned in that regard for
under-employed Labour Back Benchers who are tempted to brief against their colleagues in Cardiff, and perhaps for the Secretary of State for Wales as well?
Mr. Hain: I am not sure about under-employed Labour Back Benchers, but there are certainly a lot of under-employed Conservative Back Benchers who are presumably celebrating the election of their new leader somewhere upstairs at the moment. One of the advantages of devolution, particularly in regard to the National Assembly for Wales's scrutiny procedures, is that we can learn from one other. That was one of the reasons why I campaigned so hard for a yes vote in the referendum, as the hon. Gentleman and others did. I hope that we will look at the way in which the Scottish Parliament and the National Assembly for Wales have worked, and I hope that they will look at our procedures as well. Perhaps we will learn something from one another.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): May I raise a point of House of Commons procedure, of which I have given the office of the Leader of the House notice? How are we going to monitor the absolutely burgeoning costs of the commitment in Iraq? The Chief Secretary to the Treasury said recently that,
- "For the current financial year, further sums have been drawn down from the special reserve. These are subject to scrutiny by HM Treasury and Parliament through the normal estimates process."—[Official Report, 30 October 2003; Vol. 412, c. 21WS.]
Mr. Hain: I agree that it is a considerable expenditure. The best assessment of war-fighting and peacekeeping costs over this year will be submitted formally to Parliament in the winter supplementary estimates, and we hope to inform Parliament of those costs shortly. I am sure that my hon. Friend will appreciate that we are involved in stabilising a bad security situation around Baghdad and the Tikrit area, although the south of the country is in much better shape, as is the north. I am sure that he will want to support that, whatever his views on the rights and wrongs of the war, because we want to provide a stable, democratic, peaceful future for the Iraqi people—something that they have not had for generations.
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