House of Commons
Tuesday 18 November 2003
The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock
PRAYERS
[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
Transas Group Bill
Order for consideration of Lords amendments read.
London Local Authorities Bill [Lords]
Order for consideration, as amended, read.
To be considered on Tuesday 2 December.
Oral Answers to Questions
TRANSPORT
The Secretary of State was asked—
Disabled Access
1. Linda Perham (Ilford, North): What recent discussions his Department has had with (a) other Government Departments, (b) transport network operators, (c) transport authorities and (d) passenger groups on measures to ensure that public transport networks are accessible for disabled people. [138853]
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Dr. Kim Howells): The Department has frequent discussions with industry, passenger representatives and other stakeholders about improving access to transport for disabled people. In addition, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow, East (Mr. McNulty), is giving evidence tomorrow to the Transport Committee inquiry on disabled people's access to transport.
Linda Perham : The Minister may be aware that the recent "Mind the Gap" report by the disability charity Leonard Cheshire demonstrates the difficulties that disabled people face in gaining access to work and public services as a result of inaccessible transport. When will the Government announce their response to last year's consultation on the removal of the current exemptions for transport providers from the Disability Discrimination Act 1995? Can he assure the House that
the Department is moving quickly to ensure that transport does not continue to be a major barrier to the social inclusion of disabled people?
Dr. Howells: I thank my hon. Friend for raising that and know that she has done a great deal of work with the Leonard Cheshire Foundation on the issue. The recent consultation on applying part 3 of the DDA to transport services was intended to help us formulate the necessary changes in legislation to implement the Disability Rights Task Force recommendation, which we have accepted. Those changes will form part of the draft disability Bill that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions will publish before the end of the year for pre-legislative scrutiny. We will not publish a separate response to the consultation.
Mr. Greg Knight (East Yorkshire): Does the Minister accept that the Opposition will support genuine and workable proposals to make public transport more accessible to the disabled? Does he share my anger, however, that earlier this year two disabled pensioners travelling together had to cancel a holiday in my constituency because the train company concerned would take only one wheelchair at a time on each train? Is not that a disgrace? Will he join me in congratulating another train company, First Great Western, on implementing its disabled persons protection policy, which covers problems facing the disabled while travelling and will improve facilities at every one of that company's 14 railway stations?
Dr. Howells: First, I welcome the right hon. Gentleman to his new position on the Front Bench. It is good to see him there. We need jazz drummers in every position that we can get them.
I share the right hon. Gentleman's anger and concern at the behaviour of the train company in question. He makes a good point in raising that. I also share his pleasure in seeing First Great Western take that very important initiative. Between 9 million and 11 million people are registered with some form of disability in this country. In addition to the duty to ensure that they have access to transport, companies should wake up to the fact that there is a huge commercial market to serve.
Mr. Roger Berry (Kingswood): My hon. Friend referred to recommendations by the Disability Rights Task Force that transport should be included in the Disability Discrimination Act. I welcome his assurance that that will be done. Another recommendation was that there should be end dates for all rail vehicles to be accessible to the disabled. What are those end dates?
Dr. Howells: My hon. Friend is well known for his work for many years on behalf of disabled groups, and he raises an important issue. He knows that the Government have already introduced regulations under the DDA to ensure that new buses and trains are accessible to disabled people. Last month, we announced our proposals for implementing the taxi provisions. Significant progress has already been made. For example, in the past two and a half years, 1,400 fully accessible new vehicles have been introduced on the railways, and there will be more than 1,000 more in the next 18 months. More than one third of buses are
already accessible, and the proportion is much higher in many major towns and cities. However, I take his point: we must ensure that access is as complete as is possible and practicable.
Mr. Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight): Does the Minister think it appropriate that a vehicle should be described as wheelchair-accessible when a constituent of mine, who is a sixth former at Cowes high school and 5 ft 10 in, has to bow his head to sit in it in his wheelchair? Peugeot Eurotaxis have only 54 in of headroom, Volkswagen Transporters have 53.5 in, Mercedes Vitos have 52 in and the standard Ford Transit has only 52 in. Does not he believe that anyone in a wheelchair should be able to sit upright in a wheelchair-accessible vehicle?
Dr. Howells: If the hon. Gentleman will do me a favour and send me those details, I shall try to take up the matter with the manufacturers.
Bus Services
2. Mr. John Grogan (Selby): What plans he has to increase the regulation of bus services. [138854]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. Tony McNulty): The current statutory framework for bus services is set out in the Transport Act 2000. As with all other legislation, the Government are keeping the position under review.
Mr. Grogan : Since our good friend Ken, Mayor of London, is trusted to set fares, timetables and routes in the capital city, where bus use is increasing, why cannot councillors from the great northern cities of Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle and York be trusted to do the same? Surely the interests of bus passengers must come above those of bus companies, which make a rate of return of 14 per cent. outside London but 6 per cent. in London.
Mr. McNulty: My hon. Friend knows that transport in London has been treated differently from that in the rest of the country since the 1930s. Our key role is to drive up standards and encourage more people to use buses. The key to that under any regulatory framework is a better partnership between operators and local authorities. In many areas, we have creative operators who do a good job with their local authorities under inspired political leadership. Sadly, that is not the case in many areas. We are considering that, and we work with areas constantly.
John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross): Given that bus ridership outside London has fallen by 4 per cent. since 1999, does the Under-Secretary agree with the director general of Nexus, who said:
- "Letting the market decide what the bus network should look like frankly hasn't worked."?
-
Although no one would wish to return to pre-1985 regulation, is not it time to introduce a controlled market to allow for properly integrated transport to deliver the ridership figures that we all want and that the Government promised?
Mr. Colin Challen (Morley and Rothwell): The village of Thorpe in my constituency may not be as large as London, but the bus service is much worse, especially No. 130, which regularly fails to get its passengers on board because it does not turn up. I often write to my excellent passenger transport authority about the problem, but it always replies that the bus service is a commercial service and there is little that it can do. When will we tell bus companies that they provide a public service, not simply a private profit-making service for themselves?
Mr. McNulty: My hon. Friend makes a fair point. I confess that I know nothing about the 130 that runs through his constituency, but I recently had a meeting with representatives of all the PTAs and they accepted that there were difficulties. Matters therefore remain under review, and there is much further to go in the existing regulatory framework. Simply reverting to the pre-1985 position is not the answer in the collective opinion of operators and local authorities.
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