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Mr. Blunkett: Before addressing the amendments and propositions before us tonight, I reiterate what the Foreign Secretary, the Prime Minister and the President of the United States have said outside the House about the terrible bombings that occurred in Istanbul today. Our hearts go out to the families and friends of the consul general and of all the staff and civilians who were killed. This reiterates the terrible threat that those who are prepared to bomb, kill and maim others are dealing out to innocent people across the world.
Despite the knife-edge nature of the debate on the Criminal Justice Bill, not least over the last 48 hours, we are on the edge of getting a flagship Bill that I think most people in the House would agree has considerable and notable agreement across the parties in terms of the benefit that it will bring in transforming the well-being of people in our constituencies and the respect that they have for the criminal justice system. That can only be a good thing. To protect people from thuggery, organised criminality and the disruption caused to the justice system that we have experienced and debated over the last few months has to be the right thing to do.
We want to provide sentences that match the seriousness of the crime, to ensure that life means life, to avoid the double jeopardy rule which, under new DNA and forensic science, would have allowed criminals to go free even though we could prove that they had committed the most horrendous crimes, to have the new sentencing guidelines council, and the involvement of the public, as well as those engaged in the criminal justice system, in shaping sentencing for the future,
involving imaginative new sentences—including intermittent sentences, custody minus and strong community sentences—that underpin more severe sentences for dangerous criminals. I mention all those things because I believe that, despite the acrimony that we experienced on Tuesday and yesterday evening, we shall now have a modernised criminal justice system fit for the 21st century.More than 98 per cent. of the measures that we put to the House on Second Reading have been agreed, and many changes that have improved the Bill have been agreed without acrimony in the two Houses. Over the last 48 hours, additional amendments have been introduced and have gained consensus. Despite the provocation offered earlier in relation to the shadow Leaders of the House, I do not intend to respond to it. The provisions that have been taken over the last 48 hours in relation to avoiding the intimidation of juries and ensuring that we have clear and understandable procedures for dealing with bad character, and the way in which we shall respond tonight in respect of juveniles, have made the Bill a better measure, and a better vehicle for taking forward the intentions of both Houses of Parliament.
Tonight, I want to take up the challenge of a final agreement, which has been reached between the political parties in the House, and hope that we can take things forward. It is important to have achieved that because, in addition to the measures that I have already enunciated this evening, tackling gun crime head on and dealing with those who misuse vehicles as tools for killing people in circumstances that have horrified Members of the House indicate the significance of reaching such an agreement.
I have consulted with the spokespeople for the two main parties. I have not been able to reach agreement yet with my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews), who forms almost a party of his own on these issues, although I know he has been consulting regularly over the last 48 hours with the Opposition parties, so he will be familiar with the issues that we have been debating. [Interruption.] I am sure that, as has rightly been pointed out from a sedentary position, we will secure measures to avoid his intimidation, just as we have with juries.
Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire): Is the Home Secretary aware that the hon. and learned Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews) is a dab hand at the monologue? He will be producing one at a concert in February. The Home Secretary had better look to his laurels.
Mr. Blunkett: I have heard a few monologues in the House, never mind the poetry that always comes from the retiring Liberal Democrat spokesman, the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes). I thought I had already said au revoir to him, but I say it with great spirit tonight because this is his swan song in the shadow Home Affairs brief.
We secured agreement in relation to bad character on clauses 96 and 93, but we are tonight linking it to securing agreement on clause 101, which relates to juveniles. I am proposing—in the spirit of agreement, I think this is an improvement—that any juvenile who has
committed a crime would not be subject to these amendments and these proposals unless the crime was of a sufficient nature to warrant being reintroduced. In other words, it would have to be an indictable offence, which, by its very nature, would be severe enough for it to be introduced.On Tuesday afternoon, most people in the House would have gathered from the debate my overwhelming enthusiasm for clause 41. I remember my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Redcar (Vera Baird) questioning me on it. My demeanour and my robust defence must have given her the impression that Lord Justice Auld's enthusiasm for that measure was not entirely shared by those on the Front Bench. In that spirit, I have been prepared to concede that clause to get agreement on the remaining clauses this evening.
In the same spirit, we have also been prepared to discuss clause 42, having secured clauses 43 and 45. Clause 42, as the House will know, dealt with the issue that we debated on Tuesday—serious fraud. People will be aware of the Roskill and Auld proposals. Roskill, of course, preceded the operation of the Serious Fraud Office. We have adduced that it would be very sensible indeed if, given the controversy that has arisen over clause 42, we were able to secure agreement in a way that joined us together in finding a solution for the very, very small number of cases in which there is a major problem in securing a jury, and securing the retention of the jury, as well as in being able to secure the confidence of the SFO that, in taking such cases, it could secure a conviction where one was rightly warranted. It will, in other words, secure justice.
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First, in moving to a single judge sitting alone we are prepared to have to secure the consent of the Lord Chief Justice. Secondly, we are prepared to agree that we will not implement the proposals set out in clause 42, as amended, while we seek an improved way forward that does not rely on a single judge sitting alone.
During the debate, proposals in relation to how specialist advice and support might be offered have been made, including measures drawing on a specialist range of expertise for a jury. On Second Reading and again on Report, I said that I was not against looking at such measures, so I find no difficulty tonight in offering the opportunity to the two main Opposition parties working with the Attorney-General, the Serious Fraud Office and the senior judiciary to take a further look at how that might be taken forward. We are able to look at that in relation to the SFO in a way that Roskill could not. In that light, I will not press for implementation of the clause. I am prepared to offer an affirmative resolution, should that be required.
I am prepared to do that because of two pieces of legislation: the draft corruption Bill, which we have been scrutinising, and a measure in relation to domestic violence, crime and victims that will be in the Queen's Speech next Wednesday. That, together with the measures on multiple offences that we discussed across the Dispatch Box on Tuesday, will give us the opportunity to secure an improved provision that will provide the safeguards that Members have sought
without giving way on the principle that we should not undermine the task of the SFO in bringing criminals to book who are engaged in serious crime, which has eluded many past efforts.
Simon Hughes (Southwark, North and Bermondsey): The Home Secretary knows that his statement on this issue is welcome. Some of us have argued for a long time that for serious fraud cases there should be an alternative to the conventional jury, which keeps the principle of jury trial. I seek a public clarification from him, which I have asked for privately. Is the it implication of his remarks that, as a result of the Bill passing into law tonight, there will not be any serious fraud trial by a single judge in England and Wales?
Mr. Blunkett: I am prepared to give that undertaking. It is part of the agreement that we will retain the clause, but move forward towards looking at the alternative solutions that I have mentioned and that could be incorporated in one or other of the two measures that have either been consulted on or will come before the House in the Queen's Speech. That safeguard is appropriate. I give a binding undertaking that we will follow that agreement.
This legislation has been difficult to achieve because of the way in which the two Houses have, rightly, had to scrutinise detailed measures, many of which have been subject to the scrutiny of those whose primary background lies in the law. Many of us whose background does not have been concerned to ensure that we secure for the British public a set of proposals that maintain our commitment to a safer, more secure Britain in which the law seeks truth. Parliament seeks to ensure that justice is done, and we are better equipped to enable the police to do their job, the courts to secure justice and the legal profession to join with us in ensuring that it is truth, not just pyrrhic victory, that is gained in such trials.
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