| Session 2002-2003 |
| Commons Journal 259
Chronological Index
Page 128 2002-2003 Volume 259 [No. 31.] Monday 20th January 2003. The House met at half-past Two o'clock. PRAYERS.
That the draft Regulatory Reform (Credit Unions) Order 2002, which was laid before this House on 16th December, should be approved. That the draft Regulatory Reform (Assured Periodic Tenancies) (Rent Increases) Order 2003, which was laid before this House on 13th January, should be approved. The Committee came to these Resolutions without a Division. That the proposal for the Regulatory Reform (Housing Management Agreements) Order 2003, which was laid before this House on 4th November, in the last Session of Parliament, should be amended before a draft Order is laid before the House.
Winding-up Arrangements for Occupational Pensions,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House expresses its deep concern at current arrangements for winding-up occupational pension schemes, which leave many people receiving much less than expected for their retirement; deplores the lack of action by the Government to address this issue; notes that present workers near to retirement after long service with the employer often receive less than those who retired early after less service; recognises the great urgency of the issue because of the large number of schemes now moving towards wind-up; welcomes the proposals in the National Association of Pension Funds document, Pensions—Plain and Simple, for a possible new schedule of priorities on winding-up a final salary scheme with an insolvent employer; further notes that the Government in its Green Paper, Simplicity, Security and Choice, was prepared to consider such a measure; further notes that there is widespread support in Parliament for such changes; and urges the Government to take early action to address the crisis and speedily to introduce new winding-up priorities which take proper account of the age and length of service of non-retired scheme members—(Mr Oliver Heald); An Amendment was proposed to the Question, in line 2, to leave out from the word ‘House' to the end of the Question and add the words ‘acknowledges the crucial contribution of the UK tradition of occupational pension provision; welcomes the range of measures in the recent Green Paper to strengthen that tradition and to renew the pensions partnership between employers, employees, the financial services industry and Government; supports, in particular, the promotion of occupational pensions as a means to recruit and to retain good staff through the employer task force and other measures; notes the proposal to give employees the right to be consulted on changes to an employer's pension scheme; further notes the Government's consideration of a range of options to bolster member protection in cases where schemes are wound up, including options for a fairer sharing of assets when schemes close, with more priority for workers closer to retirement or those with more years of contributions; believes that there should be 100 per cent. protection in cases of fraud; supports the appointment of a new proactive regulator to investigate fraud and maladministration; further notes the proposed £150–£200 million administrative savings which will encourage firms to open new schemes and keep existing schemes running; and further welcomes the establishment of the independent Pension Commission to assess how effectively the current voluntarist approach is developing and to make recommendations to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on whether there is a case for moving beyond that approach', instead thereof.—(Mr Ian McCartney.) And the Question being put, That the original words stand part of the Question; The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Hugh Robertson, Mr Desmond Swayne: 191. Tellers for the Noes, Mr Ivor Caplin, Mr Fraser Kemp: 315. So the Question was negatived. And the Question, That the proposed words be there added, being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments):—It was agreed to. Page 129 Monday 20th January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top The Deputy Speaker forthwith declared the Main Question, as amended, to be agreed to. Resolved, That this House acknowledges the crucial contribution of the UK tradition of occupational pension provision; welcomes the range of measures in the recent Green Paper to strengthen that tradition and to renew the pensions partnership between employers, employees, the financial services industry and Government; supports, in particular, the promotion of occupational pensions as a means to recruit and to retain good staff through the employer task force and other measures; notes the proposal to give employees the right to be consulted on changes to an employer's pension scheme; further notes the Government's consideration of a range of options to bolster member protection in cases where schemes are wound up, including options for a fairer sharing of assets when schemes close, with more priority for workers closer to retirement or those with more years of contributions; believes that there should be 100 per cent. protection in cases of fraud; supports the appointment of a new proactive regulator to investigate fraud and maladministration; further notes the proposed £150–£200 million administrative savings which will encourage firms to open new schemes and keep existing schemes running; and further welcomes the establishment of the independent Pension Commission to assess how effectively the current voluntarist approach is developing and to make recommendations to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on whether there is a case for moving beyond that approach. European Directives on Food Supplements and Herbal Products,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House notes that the Food Supplements Directive includes a list of nutrients and nutrient sources that may be used in supplements and that there are nearly 300 safe nutrient sources on the UK market which are missing from the list; further notes that unless full safety dossiers are submitted for consideration by the European Scientific Committee for Food by July 2005 these nutrients will be illegal; observes that the cost of commissioning research to include within a dossier, and the compilation of such dossiers, makes the task prohibitively expensive and that some 270 safe and popular nutrient sources will be lost to the UK industry and its consumers; and declines to approve the proposed statutory instruments implementing the Directive unless and until the Government secures an amendment to the Directive so as to allow to remain on the national market those products which would otherwise fall outside the Directive's technical restrictions; further notes that the Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive would require dossiers to be submitted to the Medicines Control Agency and would impose costs of tens of thousands of pounds per product on manufacturers; regrets that it would not allow any overseas product which had not been on the European market for 10 years even if it were demonstrably safe; and urges the Government to renegotiate the main provisions of this flawed Directive—(Dr Liam Fox); An Amendment was proposed to the Question, in line 2, to leave out from the word ‘House' to the end of the Question and add the words ‘recognises, in relation to the Food Supplements Directive, the Government's firm commitment to the view that the law should allow safe and properly-labelled food supplements to be freely marketed; welcomes its intention to take advantage of flexibility, secured by the UK, to permit continued use of substances not on the permitted lists where products comply with existing UK food safety legislation; notes that the impact on the long-term availability of products currently on the market will depend upon future developments on maximum limits and lists of permitted nutrients; supports the Government's efforts to press the case for any maximum limits which may be established at EU level to be based on thorough scientific risk assessments; further recognises that the proposed Directive on Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products would introduce regulatory arrangements to set safety and quality standards for unlicensed herbal remedies, and introduce systematic consumer information about the safe use of products and permit companies to make claims; further notes that the proposed Directive is supported by most interest groups, who believe it will protect public health and boost consumer confidence in herbal medicines; further welcomes the progress of the Government in negotiations for more flexibility to take account of valid evidence of traditional use from outside the European Union and to permit herbal nutrient combination remedies; and further welcomes the stated willingness of the Herbal Forum, representing all UK manufacturers' trade associations in the sector, to work with the Medicines Control Agency to minimise regulatory impact, consistent with the need to protect public health', instead thereof.—(Ms Hazel Blears.) And the Question being proposed, That the original words stand part of the Question; David Maclean rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. And the Question being put, That the Question be now put:—It was agreed to. And the Question being accordingly put; Page 130 Monday 20th January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Desmond Swayne, Hugh Robertson: 196. Tellers for the Noes, Mr John Heppell, Dan Norris: 309. So the Question was negatived. And the Question, That the proposed words be there added, being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments); The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Nick Ainger, Dan Norris: 347. Tellers for the Noes, Hugh Robertson, Mr Desmond Swayne: 151. So the Question was agreed to. The Speaker forthwith declared the Main Question, as amended, to be agreed to. Resolved, That this House recognises, in relation to the Food Supplements Directive, the Government's firm commitment to the view that the law should allow safe and properly-labelled food supplements to be freely marketed; welcomes its intention to take advantage of flexibility, secured by the UK, to permit continued use of substances not on the permitted lists where products comply with existing UK food safety legislation; notes that the impact on the long-term availability of products currently on the market will depend upon future developments on maximum limits and lists of permitted nutrients; supports the Government's efforts to press the case for any maximum limits which may be established at EU level to be based on thorough scientific risk assessments; further recognises that the proposed Directive on Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products would introduce regulatory arrangements to set safety and quality standards for unlicensed herbal remedies, and introduce systematic consumer information about the safe use of products and permit companies to make claims; further notes that the proposed Directive is supported by most interest groups, who believe it will protect public health and boost consumer confidence in herbal medicines; further welcomes the progress of the Government in negotiations for more flexibility to take account of valid evidence of traditional use from outside the European Union and to permit herbal nutrient combination remedies; and further welcomes the stated willingness of the Herbal Forum, representing all UK manufacturers' trade associations in the sector, to work with the Medicines Control Agency to minimise regulatory impact, consistent with the need to protect public health.
(1) residents of the city of Sunderland for greater control over the purchase and use of air guns, and (2) ‘Consumers for Health Choice' and others against restrictions on the availability of natural health products were presented and read; and ordered to lie upon the Table and to be printed.
And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till two minutes to Eleven o'clock, adjourned till to-morrow. [Adjourned at 10.58 p.m. APPENDIX I Papers presented or laid upon the Table: Papers delivered to the Votes and Proceedings Office on Friday 17th January 2003 (Non-sitting Friday, S.O. No. 12) pursuant to Standing Order No. 159 (Presentation of statutory instruments): Papers subject to Negative Resolution:
Page 131 Monday 20th January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top
Papers presented or laid upon the Table on Monday 20th January 2003: Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:
(2) draft Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Board) Order 2003 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Clarke].
(2) draft Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 (Amnesty Period) Order 2003 [by Act], with Explanatory Memoranda thereon [by Command] [Mr Secretary Murphy]. Papers subject to Negative Resolution:
Other Papers:
(1) Bedford Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (2) Blackburn with Darwen Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (3) Derby North East Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (4) Downham & Bellingham Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (5) Gloucester Education Action Zone for 2000–01, (6) Gloucester Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (7) Leicester Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (8) Nottingham Education Action Zone for 2001–02, (9) Southend Education Action Zone for 2001–02, and (10) Telford & Wrekin Education Action Zone for 2001–02, with the Reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [Nos. 303, 304, 305, 306, 312, 307, 308, 309, 310 and 311] [Clerk of the House]. APPENDIX II Standing Committees
Page 132 Monday 20th January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top APPENDIX III Reports from Select Committees
(2) Sixth Report from the Committee [The draft Regulatory Reform (Credit Unions) Order 2003; The draft Regulatory Reform (Assured Periodic Tenancies) (Rent Increases) Order 2003], together with an Appendix; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings fo the Committee relating to the Report [No. 329] [Mr Peter Pike]. [No. 32.] Tuesday 21st January 2003. The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock. PRAYERS.
That the Standing Committee recommends that the programme order of 7th January in relation to the Local Government Bill be amended as follows— In paragraph 2 of the order, for ‘6th' there is substituted ‘13th'. Report, together with Resolution, to lie upon the Table.
That the Standing Committee recommends that the programme order of 9th December 2002 in relation to the Extradition Bill be amended as follows— In paragraph 4 of the order, for ‘one hour' there is substituted ‘two hours'. Report, together with Resolution, to lie upon the Table.
Bill, as amended in the Standing Committee, to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 45]. Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed [No. 338].
And it being Seven o'clock, the Motion for the adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put. Page 133 Tuesday 21st January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top
(1) the Northern Ireland Grand Committee shall meet at Westminster on Thursday 6th February at a quarter-past Two o'clock; and (2) at that sitting: (a) the Committee shall take questions under Standing Order No. 110 (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (questions for oral answer)); and (b) at the conclusion of the business appointed for consideration, a motion for the adjournment of the Committee may be made by a Minister of the Crown, pursuant to paragraph (5) of Standing Order No. 116 (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings))—(Mr Jim Murphy):—It was agreed to.
And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till twenty-eight minutes past Seven o'clock, adjourned till to-morrow. [Adjourned at 7.28 p.m. APPENDIX I Papers presented or laid upon the Table: Papers subject to Negative Resolution:
Other Papers:
APPENDIX II Standing Committees
Page 134 Tuesday 21st January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top APPENDIX III Reports from Select Committees
(2) Memorandum laid before the Committee [Local Government Finance: Formula Grant Distribution] [Andrew Bennett].
[No. 32; WH, No. 19.] Tuesday 21st January 2003. The House sitting in Westminster Hall The sitting commenced at half-past Nine o'clock.
And the sitting having continued for two and a half hours after Two o'clock, it was adjourned without Question put, till to-morrow. [Adjourned at 4.30 p.m. Page 135 Tuesday 21st January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top [No. 33.] Wednesday 22nd January 2003. The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock. PRAYERS.
Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
That the Committee takes note of European Union Documents No. 8395/02, draft Council Regulation concerning jurisdiction and the recognition and enforcement of judgments in matrimonial matters and in matters of parental responsibility repealing Regulation (EC) No. 1347/2000 and amending Regulation (EC) No. 44/2001 in matters relating to maintenance, and the unnumbered explanatory memoranda of 14 November 2002 and 9 January 2003 from the Lord Chancellor's Department and Scottish Executive Justice Department on the Presidency proposals for amendment of the draft Regulation; supports the underlying aim of extending the principle of mutual recognition to decisions on parental responsibility by establishing a clear and coherent set of rules for attributing jurisdiction, and putting in place arrangements for co-operation between the courts and central authorities of the Member States; considers that the proposed amendments would achieve the objectives of the United Kingdom in relation to child abduction; and welcomes the reinforcement of support for the 1980 Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction whilst providing Community measures to supplement its provisions to enable enhanced European co-operation against the wrongful removal and retention of children. Report, together with Resolution, to lie upon the Table.
The Lords have agreed to the London Development Agency Bill, without Amendment.
Mr Tam Dalyell rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. And the Question being put, That the Question be now put:—It was agreed to. And the Question being accordingly put, That this House do now adjourn; The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Andrew Bennett, David Taylor: 0. Tellers for the Noes, Mr Kelvin Hopkins, Sue Doughty: 53. So the Question was negatived. Page 136 Wednesday 22nd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top
And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till nineteen minutes to Eight o'clock, adjourned till to-morrow. [Adjourned at 7.41 p.m. APPENDIX I Papers presented or laid upon the Table: Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:
Other Papers:
Papers withdrawn:
APPENDIX II Standing Committees
(1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Regulations to the First Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: Charlotte Atkins, Virginia Bottomley, Mr Chris Bryant, Ms Karen Buck, Geraint Davies, Julia Drown, Jane Griffiths, Mr Oliver Heald, Paul Holmes, Siobhain McDonagh, Mr Greg Pope, Mr Neil Turner, Angela Watkinson, Steve Webb, Malcolm Wicks and Mr John Wilkinson.
(1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Regulations and draft Codes to the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: Mr Nick Ainger, Mr Adrian Bailey, Norman Baker, Mr Derek Foster, Mr John Hayes, Mr Jon Owen Jones, Mr Kevan Jones, Mr David Kidney, Mr Peter Lilley, Mr Elliot Morley, Linda Perham, Mr James Plaskitt, Hugh Robertson, Mr Paul Truswell, Mr Bill Wiggin and Mr Roger Williams.
(1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Order to the Third Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and Page 137 Wednesday 22nd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: Mr Roy Beggs, Mr Stephen Byers, Mr Alistair Carmichael, Mr Michael Clapham, Jim Dowd, Paul Flynn, Mr Stephen Hepburn, Shona McIsaac, Andrew Mackinlay, Gillian Merron, Mr Geoffrey Robinson, Mr Peter Robinson, Angela Smith, Mr Hugo Swire, Mr John Taylor and Mr David Wilshire.
(1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations and Order to the Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: Mr Harold Best, Ms Hazel Blears, Angela Eagle, Mr Mark Field, Jim Fitzpatrick, Mrs Cheryl Gillan, Dr Evan Harris, Mr Doug Henderson, Mr Mark Hendrick, Tim Loughton, Mr Stephen McCabe, John McDonnell, Mr John Redwood, Dr Gavin Strang, Claire Ward and Mr Roger Williams.
(1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the Sixth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: Mrs Angela Browning, Mr Simon Burns, Mr Paul Burstow, Mr David Crausby, Jim Fitzpatrick, Mrs Cheryl Gillan, Alan Keen, Mr Andrew Love, Rosemary McKenna, Mr Paul Marsden, Joan Ruddock, Mr Richard Shepherd, Mr Dennis Skinner, Geraldine Smith, Jacqui Smith and Mrs Betty Williams. Grand Committees
APPENDIX III Reports from Select Committees
(2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [The Illegal Drugs Trade and Drugs Culture in Northern Ireland]; to be printed [No. 353-i] [Mr Michael Mates].
Page 138 Wednesday 22nd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top
(2) Second Report from the Committee [The Committee's Work in 2002]; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 297]; and (3) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [The Future of UK Pensions]; to be printed [No. 92-v] [Sir Archy Kirkwood]. [No. 33; WH, No. 20.] Wednesday 22nd January 2003. The House sitting in Westminster Hall The sitting commenced at half-past Nine o'clock.
And accordingly the sitting was adjourned till to-morrow. [Adjourned at 4.29 p.m. [No. 34.] Thursday 23rd January 2003. The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock. PRAYERS.
Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Joan Ryan, Derek Twigg: 292. Tellers for the Noes, Angela Watkinson, Mr Laurence Robertson: 153. So the Question was agreed to.
A Clause (Further referendum on petition)—(Mr Philip Hammond)—brought up and read the first time. Question put, That the Clause be read a second time. The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Angela Watkinson, Mr Laurence Robertson: 121. Tellers for the Noes, Jim Fitzpatrick, Mr Phil Woolas: 342. Page 139 Thursday 23rd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top Another Clause (Pre-Referendum)—(Mr Philip Hammond)—brought up and read the first time. Question proposed, That the Clause be read a second time. And it being Five o'clock, the Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Order [26th November], proceeded to put the Question already proposed from the Chair. The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Angela Watkinson, Mr Laurence Robertson: 120. Tellers for the Noes, Jim Fitzpatrick, Mr Phil Woolas: 334. The Deputy Speaker proceeded to put the Question on a new Clause which the Speaker had selected for separate Division. Another Clause (Regional boundaries)—(Mr Philip Hammond)—brought up and read the first time. Question put, That the Clause be added to the Bill. The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Angela Watkinson, Mr Laurence Robertson: 159. Tellers for the Noes, Mr Fraser Kemp, Jim Fitzpatrick: 295. The Deputy Speaker proceeded to put the Question on the remaining Amendments moved by a Minister of the Crown. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, that Amendments Nos. 4 to 11 be made. The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Fraser Kemp, Mr Phil Woolas: 323. Tellers for the Noes, Mr Laurence Robertson, Angela Watkinson: 118. A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That the Bill be now read the third time; And it being Six o'clock, the Deputy Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Order [26th November]. The House divided. Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Fraser Kemp, Mr Phil Woolas: 331. Tellers for the Noes, Mr Laurence Robertson, Angela Watkinson: 123. So the Question was agreed to. The Bill was accordingly read the third time, and passed.
(1) the draft Strategic Investment and Regeneration of Sites (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 be referred to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee; Page 140 Thursday 23rd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top (2) the Committee shall meet at Westminster on Tuesday 4th February at half-past Two o'clock; and (3) at that sitting the Committee shall consider the instrument referred to it under paragraph (1) above—(Mr John Heppell):—It was agreed to.
And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till sixteen minutes to Seven o'clock, adjourned till Monday 27th January. [Adjourned at 6.44 p.m. APPENDIX I Papers presented or laid upon the Table: Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:
(2) draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Code of Practice on Video Recording of Interviews) (Northern Ireland) Order 2003, and (3) draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Continuance of Part VII) Order 2003 [by Act], with Explanatory Memoranda thereon [by Command] [Mr Secretary Murphy]. Papers subject to Negative Resolution:
Other Papers:
APPENDIX II Standing Committees
Page 141 Thursday 23rd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top
(1) The Speaker has appointed Mr Bill Olner Chairman of the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the draft Regulations and draft Codes); and (2) the Committee of Selection has discharged Mr Nick Ainger from the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the draft Regulations and draft Codes); and nominated in substitution Derek Twigg.
(1) The Speaker has appointed Mr John Cummings Chairman of the Sixth Standing Committee (nominated in respect of the Regulations); and (2) the Committee of Selection has discharged Mr David Crausby from the Sixth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the Regulations); and nominated in substitution Mr Lindsay Hoyle. European Standing Committees
Grand Committees
APPENDIX III Reports from Select Committees
Page 142 Thursday 23rd January 2003 2002-2003 Volume 259 Back to top
(2) First Special Report from the Committee [Government Response to the Sixth Report from the Committee in Session 2001–02, on the Department for International Development: Departmental Report 2002]; to be printed [No. 357], and (3) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [The humanitarian crisis in southern Africa]; to be printed [116-iv] [Tony Baldry].
[No. 34; WH, No. 21.] Thursday 23rd January 2003. The House sitting in Westminster Hall The sitting commenced at half-past Two o'clock.
And accordingly the sitting was adjourned till Tuesday 28th January. [Adjourned at 6.36 p.m.
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