Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-104)
THURSDAY 20 MARCH 2003
SIR DAVID
OMAND KCB AND
MS SUSAN
SCHOLEFIELD CMG
Chairman
100. If the electricity is working.
(Sir David Omand) Coming back to our basic message
about "Go in, stay in, tune in", that is about the only
simple advice we can give to people until there is information
available to give them. You questioned me earlier about the range
of circumstance that we might face. Hypothetically if we, for
example, face a biological attack then that is something which
will not be apparent at the moment of attack, it will only become
apparent because of a pattern of reporting of cases through the
medical system. If we take the circumstance, again hypothetical,
of a serious chemical attack, it may be some time before the agent
or agents involved can be identified and therefore the right advice
given to the public as to what to do. I am very confident that
we have well practised and rehearsed arrangements for informing
and warning the public, but the key to it will be the early identification
which will come from the first responders of the police and specialist
services of exactly what we are dealing with and the judgments
that will need to be made about how best to protect the public
in those circumstances.
Chairman: A brief question from Kevan.
Mr Jones
101. Obviously one of the key things is that
there is a difference between general awareness and, like you
say, a specific attack which might take place in Central London—James'
flat in Westminster—I think the radio is an under-valued
tool in terms of the number of radios there are in people's houses
as opposed to television sets. Have you looked, for example, at
new technology and things like text messaging and also direct
dialling phones where you can ring umpteen phone numbers in an
area with a message on them? Have you explored technology like
that?
(Sir David Omand) Yes and we have had advice from
the committee that was referred to earlier about ways in which
we could do this. There are already operational systems like that
in use between the police and commercial organisations, for example,
in the City of London.
Jim Knight: Flood Watch is very successful
as a civil defence system.
Chairman: We have ten minutes to go because
there is a statement on events in Iraq. I am very interested and
have been for a long time in the private security industry, not
just Securicor but security managers, head of security, security
directors. They complain bitterly that they are not getting the
right information from government on the threats. What they need
is, as one said to me, "to have the kind of information that
I can relay very quickly to my facilities manager". Have
you given any consideration to a conference session with representatives
of security not just in the City of London, of which there are
many, but within the industry that seems to be an untapped resource
and now it is under the process of being licensed at long last,
it will be a major asset. I know David Veness is keen to develop
the private sector security. Two questions really to be answered
later. Firstly, is have you got into a decent discussion not just
with emergency planners but with the different sectors of the
security industry because, frankly, they will be of enormous importance
should there ever be a disaster. Secondly, have you consulted
generally and would you look at ways of talking to the intelligence
services and the police so that better information can be transmitted
up and down the country to the professionals who are responsible
for protecting their own property, which I think is really very,
very important. If you would not mind, Sir David, could you drop
me a note? Syd?[3]
Syd Rapson
102. Just quickly on the national attack warning
system, the previous report we had showed that the old system
of warnings was taken down and dismantled and the new report recommends
that we should not have a national siren system reintroduced because
it is not necessary, but how do people know they have got to turn
their TVs and radios on because they are not going on with it
on all day listening to broadcasts? How do they know they are
going to need to turn on the radio or TV or Ceefax to get the
information unless there is some system of warning that can be
given out?
(Sir David Omand) I do not have a ready answer to
that. My observation of the tragic events of 11 September was
that it was astonishing how quickly everyone was watching the
media and following events. The news of that spread like wildfire.
Neighbours rang up and called on each other to say, "Have
you seen what is happening?" The ability of the bush telegraph
to transmit that kind of message is very powerful. I do take the
thrust of your question that we need to continue to work on this
question of alerting the public to something that may be happening
or has happened so that we can then get specific warning information
to them. We will continue to work away on that.
103. Eleventh September was a very visible thing
and people could see it. If there were a release of chemical agents
in a subway perhaps in central London people would not see that
as such. It could be quite a serious situation before anyone realised.
Sir David Omand) I think
if we are in this area of terrorism then there will be the national
interest as well as specific local concerns. The local media,
particularly local radio, is a very powerful means of giving information,
but I would not under-estimate the national interest which there
is, as we have seen when we have taken various precautionary measures
here in London. It certainly hits the headlines.
104. You mentioned that the colour-coded system
that we have in government departments is not going to be used
for the general public. Why? Why can the public not be informed
if in various places, there is a Bikini Amber alert in Tesco's
and we should be aware of what that means?
(Sir David Omand) The system we have in government
buildings' for colour-coding has very specific meanings which
are understood by the security staff and by those who work in
those buildings so that if that alert state changes then everybody
knows exactly what to do and that is in the confines of a single
building. It is harder to see how you could extend that to a big
area, let alone at a national level when the range of circumstances
could be so great. My judgment is to keep that form of specific
alerting for very limited areas where everyone involved can be
trained. If you were to take a major retailer or a public utility
you would find they do have graduated alert states but they have
chosen the levels to suit their particular circumstances so they
would know when to evacuate the store or move people out of the
car park or whatever. I am hesitant about trying to generalise
that across the country.
Chairman: Thank you so very much. Before
you leave perhaps I can ask your Department to clarify some of
the figures—I know they were listening frantically without
complete success—if you would not mind. Thank you very much
for coming. I understand we are in negotiation over our visit
to see your place. I hope we will be able to visit London Resilience
and we appreciate what you have said to us, so thank you very
much.
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