Examination of Witnesses (Questions 300
- 312)
WEDNESDAY 20 NOVEMBER 2002
COLONEL MICHAEL
J E TAYLOR CBE TD DL, COLONEL
SIR DAVID
A TRIPPIER RD JP DL AND
COLONEL J RICHARD
G PUTNAM CBE TD DL
300. You are happy that that is well documented?
(Colonel Taylor) I believe it is in very good shape.
(Colonel Sir David Trippier) I think we have a significant
role to play because within our various councils, if you come
to an annual general meeting in an RFCA, you have a very wide
cross-section of people representing the voluntary sector, the
trade unions, the employers, the emergency services and so on,
so there is a constant dialogue going on. The brigade commanders,
in my experience, know what is actually there on the ground, but
if they did not and they required any help on that matter we are
in a very strong position, because of our strong links with the
community, to help them on that.
Rachel Squire
301. As you know, the Committee has long taken
an interest in the roles of reserves and in the threats from terrorism,
more so than since September 11. I know that in the past the Defence
Committee has also looked at what role the reserves should play
in relation to nuclear, biological, chemical and radiological
threats. Certainly it stressed under the Strategic Defence Review
transferring the anti-nuclear, biological and chemical weapons
capability from the Royal Yeomanry to a regular unit. It took
those skills and focused them abroad and left us particularly
vulnerable in the homeland. As has already been commented, there
has been more and more speculation and obviously more and more
serious consideration given to the threat of those sorts of materials
being used, particularly by terrorists against the population
of the United Kingdom. Following up particularly on Mr Howarth's
initial questions and your initial reaction and your response,
saying, "We are getting deep into the chain of command here",
the reality is that the consultation documents on the roles of
reserves and civilian defence do see civil contingency reaction
forces as possibly operating in a chemical, biological, radiological,
nuclear contaminated environment. What capability can the reserves
most usefully provide for civil emergencies in the future in that
context? Can you also comment a bit more on the training and equipment
and what the view of the reserves themselves is when asked to
take on this role?
(Colonel Taylor) It is a role that we have always
seen as being appropriate for the CCRFs and for the reserves,
only provided there is all the necessary training and equipment
brought in. There has been a gap since the ending of the Cold
War in the territory. There are not now so many TA soldiers who
have been trained in that field, as there should be. That needs
to be addressed with some urgency if the CCRFs are to deliver
the role of guard forces, cleaning up and all the rest of it.
That is an absolutely major prerequisite to get on with very quickly.
302. On that basis, you are accepting that it
is a role that the CCRFs should be asked to undertake. The key
shortfall at the moment is both the training and the equipment
being urgently addressed?
(Colonel Taylor) Absolutely.
303. Provided those requirements are met, do
you think the reserves could be used to provide CBRN training
for local service providers based on their future training? Do
you think they could provide it based on the situation they are
currently in?
(Colonel Taylor) Yes, once they have been properly
resourced with training equipment. They are ideally suited to
do that very local kind of activity in conjunction with their
regular colleagues, of course.
304. As the situation stands today—?
(Colonel Taylor) I think there would be a problem
this very day because I do not think there is sufficient equipment
out there or sufficient training of all those reserves who could
be picked up.
305. Do you think they could provide point defence
for key installations?
(Colonel Taylor) Yes.
306. Across nuclear sites in the United Kingdom?
(Colonel Taylor) Very much so, with one proviso. That
goes back to the footprint work. If you look at some of those
installations, there is not much reserve presence in the area.
As a young man, I was deployed to provide a guard force around
what was in those days called Windscale—now called Sellafield—and
there is not a single reserve unit within something like 80 miles
of that particular installation. There is instantly an issue about
have we people in the right places for those roles. Of course
they can be taken there but the locality of the reserve forces
at the moment in some installations is quite an interesting challenge.
307. Given my interest as the MP for Dunfermline
West, which has radiological material in it, I think it would
be useful if you could possibly give a note to the Committee subsequently
on where you think the gaps are in the TA presence.
(Colonel Taylor) We will have to see what we can do.
Chairman: We are not going to propose
that Windscale moves closer to populated areas, but it is a problem.
Syd Rapson
308. Can I move on to specific communication
equipment? I was dead impressed when I visited TA units in Portsmouth
at the equipment they have. I would say, to be nice, it is beyond
its sell-by date and they maintain and keep this equipment up
to speed with great enthusiasm and try and make out it is the
best. The MoD did produce a discussion document on the role of
reserve forces and home defences security and said that the 2
Signal Brigade's role has been formalised in supporting the operational
continuity and is to be equipped—do not hold your breath—with
modern communications equipment comparable with that coming into
service with the civil police and emergency services. We have
been critical about the civil side. What is the state of the communications
infrastructure to support the new regional command structure and
how compatible is it with emergency services equipment?
(Colonel Taylor) It so happens that I was privileged
on Saturday to hear the commander of Second Signals Brigade talk
about the very issue. What was very impressive was to realise
that they are working very fast and very hard to make sure that
they can do all the things you have just been asking about, that
they will have compatible systems and so forth with all the other
blue light services and all that territory. They are being resourced
to do just that. I was fairly confident after that presentation
that all the issues you raise are being very actively addressed.
I have to say again that this is not our mainstream business,
but I was comforted that, from what I heard, it looks pretty good.
309. Do I take it they will not be treated as
a Cinderella?
(Colonel Taylor) Quite the opposite. They are being
very well resourced.
310. The strength of the argument from our point
of view is that we want to know that the home security part is
as good as the best when you are abroad, especially with digital
services being able to go into an urban environment.
(Colonel Taylor) Digitisation was the word of the
day in that presentation.
311. What about the time frame? We have had
promises. How long do you think it is going to be before we get
to the stage of you being happy?
(Colonel Taylor) The presentation on Saturday led
me to believe that it was moving very rapidly within the resource
constraints that they have. They are working very hard to get
themselves to the very latest start of the art in that.
312. I know it is outside the remit of this
Committee but I would like to know if there is a delay, in a year's
time, somebody could get a message to us and say, "Our promises
have not been kept" because most of my constituents who are
concerned about homeland security rely upon homeland defence.
If the system is not in place, we need to know as early as anyone.
(Colonel Taylor) You need to quiz the chain of command
on those issues.
Chairman: Thank you. There are other
questions to ask but they would take us way into time that we
do not have. We will write to you, if you do not mind, and any
reply you give can be inserted as supplementary evidence.
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