Examination of Witness (Questions 200-207)
WEDNESDAY 18 DECEMBER 2002
MR DAVID
MILIBAND MP
Ms Munn
200. Sheffield is not the only city where there
is quite a lot of segregation between the well-off people in certain
areas and less well-off people in other areas. The majority of
children in Sheffield go to their local school and they are coming
from a community which is either doing very well or not doing
very well. Is there any evidence yet that specialist schools are
having an impact on the wider community in the way that I think
it was hoped they might?
(Mr Miliband) I think there are examples of specialist
schools using their facilities in imaginative and positive ways
and having a beacon effect, but we have got to do more. I am excited
by the prospects of some of the city academies which we did not
talk about. In the second priority I referred to of specialism
and collaboration one form of specialism comes through the innovation
that the academies represent. They are talking about new structures
of management and learning, they are pioneering all year opening,
being genuine centres of the whole community. There is significant
Government investment going into those academies and I think the
halo effect is potentially quite large and important. As I said
earlier, one of the weaker aspects of the specialist school programme
is in relation to the community use and we have to work on that.
201. One of the schools which I visited as part
of the Select Committee's visit to Birmingham was Castle Vale
School, which was quite inspirational, and that was serving a
very white working class area. One of the kids said to me, "Since
we have become performing arts my mum is always saying `When can
I come up to school?' whereas she was never interested before"
and that has obviously had a beneficial impact on her daughter's
education. It seems to me that you have probably got a community
out there of people who were turned off by learning from their
own schooling experiences. Is there anything you can do, working
in a joined-up way with your Minister who has responsibility for
lifelong learning, to look at whether there are opportunities
perhaps to be supporting schools like that where there is the
potential to get people back into learning?
(Mr Miliband) You and I discussed on my last visit
here the temptation for ministers to think that for every problem
there should be a programme or even for every good idea there
should be a programme solution and we have to try and resist the
temptation to do that. I want to be wary of saying that with every
good school I find I should create a programme to support what
it is doing. What we have to do is try and create a system that
creates the right incentives (a) to share the information (b)
to share the practice and (c) to put the money in. The money goes
in from the bottom up rather than from the top down. We can help
a bit by sponsoring innovation. There is an extended schools project
which is not just about wider opening hours but it is about community
schools in the sense of providing health and other facilities
which I think is interesting and potentially a real hub of community
re-education. I do not want education to have to wait for health
and leisure and libraries to get their act together before we
really plough on. I think schools that have a good relationship
with their local community can make sure their facilities are
more widely used and I think the development of out of hours and
summer programmes is really an important part of that.
Valerie Davey
202. There is one last issue, Minister, which
we would like to raise with you before you go and that is the
A-level standards and the work of the QCA and to ask whether you
are satisfied that the Department is now implementing what you
believe to be the core recommendations of Tomlinson?
(Mr Miliband) Most importantly, the QCA is implementing
the recommendations of Tomlinson, but to the extent that they
apply to us I think we are taking them seriously. The new leaders
of the QCA, Ken Boston and Sir Anthony Greener, have both made
a very impressive start. They are absolutely determined to make
the QCA an institution with a genuinely high reputation. There
are implications for us in relation to the memorandum of understanding
that would govern our relationship to the QCA and we are taking
that seriously and we are all utterly focused on making sure that
the 2,000 students who this year got the wrong overall grades
and the 10,000 who got the wrong unit grades never happens again
and we are working on putting the systems in place to make that
happen and that is primarily a responsibility for the QCA, but
to the extent that we can help, we are doing so and the Secretary
of State has announced a significant sum of money, up to £6
million, to help support that.
203. The relationship between the Government
and the QCA, is that going to come under further scrutiny?
(Mr Miliband) I think the Tomlinson Report warned
that we should not prejudice the efficiency improvements that
are necessary in the short-term with structural change, that is
why he advocated a memorandum of understanding. I think the Secretary
of State has made clear that we have not closed our mind to institutional
change in the direction of a more independent QCA, but our absolute
priority at the moment is to make sure that the examination system
has the organisational structure and resources to be run efficiently
and effectively so that people do have confidence that they are
getting the grades they deserve.
204. Are you satisfied you know how the £6
million that is going to the QCA is going to be spent? Will it
go to them or is it going to go to the schools?
(Mr Miliband) It will not go to schools, it will go
to pay for examiners and other key parts of the infrastructure.
I think the new team in the QCA is getting stuck into its work
in an impressive way and I think we should back them because when
you appoint people you should support them.
Jonathan Shaw
205. There is concern about the number of examiners
available. You say that you have provided the additional £6
million which NCSL has welcomed. The pay for doing the marking
on things like Key Stage 2 is very low, is it not? I understand
that it is about £5 an hour.
(Mr Miliband) Ken Boston described it as a cottage
industry in his evidence. I think all aspects of this industry
need to be looked at and that includes pay.
206. I want to give you some idea of what you
have to do for that £5 an hour. A very experienced headteacher
advised me that she gets £2.75 per script for Key Stage 2
during which time they have to test the spelling, handwriting,
reading and writing and then there is a whole series of administrative
checks that they have to do as well. Doing that for £5 an
hour on top of her other job I think means she is not going to
be looking to do it next year, which is a concern.
(Mr Miliband) Take it from me, if you think you are
concerned, I do not want to be back here in a year's time with
you beating me over the head about this. We have said very clearly
that we will do whatever the QCA recommend is necessary to get
it done. When the Secretary of State made his statement to the
House we did not get any ideas back from our own side or from
the Opposition. If anyone does have any bright ideas, please speak
now or forever hold your peace. The QCA are on to the pay rates
for examiners issue.
Valerie Davey
207. Minister, I think schools and colleges
can be well assured that you are looking carefully at this and
I hope will have more confidence in the system. We have come to
the end of a long session at the end of quite an engaging time
during the whole of this session. Can we say thank you very much
indeed for coming at the end of term and can we wish you a very
happy break for Christmas and the New Year.
(Mr Miliband) Thank you very much. I am happy to reciprocate
that.
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