Examination of Witnesses (Questions 380-399)
MONDAY 20 JANUARY 2003
SIR CYRIL
TAYLOR AND
PROFESSOR DAVID
JESSON
380. You would like to see more of the specialist
schools make use of the selection of 10%.
(Sir Cyril Taylor) No, I do not necessarily mean that.
It can mean the LEA would have regard to that when they make the
decisions. Sixty per cent of our schools are not involved in the
admissions process at all. I think it is going to remain that
way.
Mr Chaytor
381. Pursuing Paul's point about the balance
of choice and school improvement, you mentioned the example of
someone living 30 minutes away. Is that by car or by foot? Do
you see that there is a crucial difference?
(Sir Cyril Taylor) I would hope it was public transport,
if it worked.
382. Do you see the point that it is easier
for some families to transport their child?
(Sir Cyril Taylor) Absolutely right. Clearly we have
always stated that travel to school by public transport should
be the definition. That is the one most pupils would use. You
have to be very careful about the matter of travel. If, for example,
you have Muslim parents, they do not want their daughters travelling.
They will go to the nearest school. These are cultural things
you have to be aware of.
Chairman
383. That was not what we found in Birmingham.
To get to a single sex school they travel many miles round the
circle to the opposite side of Birmingham.
(Sir Cyril Taylor) I see. I am told they do not travel.
Mr Chaytor
384. May I pursue the choice thing? You seem
to be arguing that we have a system of choice and choice is a
good thing. Surely we have a system of preference because choice
only exists where you can implement your preference.
(Sir Cyril Taylor) Yes. Whatever system you have every
parent has to be told that their child has a place within a reasonable
timescale.
385. This is nothing to do with choice, is it?
The timescale is irrelevant. My only concern is the balance between
preference and choice.
(Sir Cyril Taylor) You do not want to have a policy
which produces a lot of parents not getting their child in anywhere.
That is unacceptable. If it is possible through modern technology
and LEAs co-operating and the Greenwich judgment and all of that,
especially in an urban area where there is a possibility of parents
applying to a comprehensive school with a particular specialism
that their child or they themselves are interested in, that would
seem to be a good idea.
386. But if the school is over-subscribed not
all applicants have choice?
(Sir Cyril Taylor) That again is difficult. In the
States where they have magnet schools, they do it by lot. I do
not think I would agree with that. Also I am not sure that bringing
in the catchment areas, so you have to live a few hundred yards
away from the school to get into the school, is fair because that
means you can have choice by the size of your mortgage. This is
a very difficult area and LEAs do their best to work it through.
It is something you have to be very cautious about. You cannot
just work on what sounds like a good idea. Does it work on the
ground?
Chairman
387. If there is a criticism which some people
might make of your charity, it might be that for a long time you
did subscribe to specialist schools in a rather narrow sense,
in terms of "Here is a good school. Give it the facilities,
give it the extra focus and its pupils will achieve". In
a sense that was a fashion. It was something we saw particularly
in New Zealand with schools having total independence, competing
with each other and may-the-devil-take-the-hindmost sort of philosophy.
What we have seen is a new fashion here and we have heard this
partly from Professor Brighouse in Birmingham and the Pathfinder
Project. The new concept is much more a town like my own, Huddersfield,
having a collegiate system of different specialist schools, so
there is real choice. Harold Wilson's old school, Royds Hall School,
is applying for specialist school status.
(Sir Cyril Taylor) There are a lot of schools in your
area.
388. I would not want it to have the same as
the school down the road, Newsome, which is a sports specialist
school. Have you not been a bit late coming to this? You have
been dragged down that path rather than leading it? Is that not
a criticism?
(Sir Cyril Taylor) I almost lost my job under John
Patten because I insisted that the initiative be opened up to
everybody and I was about to get fired when somebody intervened
from a high place. Never mind.
389. Should the collegiate idea not have come
from you guys rather than from Tim Brighouse?
(Sir Cyril Taylor) It actually came from David Blunkett
to be blunt. He was the one who brought in the community requirement.
I think it was a stroke of genius on his part. I think our schools
really believe in the collaborative mode and spirit, not just
a sham. They really do work together. You outlined the dream of
every school in the Huddersfield area having its own specialism
but working together and perhaps sharing their expertise and having
pupils go to a school for one subject. Let me give you an example
of collaboration. The specialist schools in Slough are very concerned
about Beechwood School with 5% five A to Cs and they persuaded
all the other eight secondary schools in Slough to take all the
year 10 and 11 pupils from that school into their schools without
being paid for them so that that school could concentrate on Years
7,8 and 9. That collaboration is working well and we want to replicate
that sort of help wherever we can.
390. Do you think the whole specialist school
agenda will deliver a more socially mobile country or do you think
it will make no impression at all?
(Professor Jesson) You speak to a statistician and
an economist who does not actually have a crystal ball to look
and see how things go. The signs are very promising about the
way that schools which really do zip and buzz will actually impact
on the society of which we are a part. Whether the development
of the system will do what you say, I honestly cannot put my hand
on my heart and say yes, it will, but the signs are very promising.
A threefold cord and perhaps even a fourfold cord and a fivefold
cord does tell us that something really good is going on in the
pupils in these schools. I would hope that is something which
could be replicated and could make a much greater impact on society
in the future than it has in the past.
Chairman: Sir Cyril, Professor Jesson,
thank you very much for your attendance.
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