Examination of Witnesses(Questions 80-85)
WEDNESDAY 11 DECEMBER 2002
JOHN HEALEY
MP, MR PAUL
O'SULLIVAN AND
MR MICHAEL
COLLINS
80. You can make the commitment that this will
be a key thing that you will pursue presumably, having appeared
here today?
(John Healey) Yes and I think everything that we attempted
to do for the first time in the spending review process and that
we have attempted to reflect in the Pre-Budget Report and particularly
set out in our approach to tax on the environment suggests that
this is something we will develop further and it is something
we are not going to let go as the Treasury.
Mr Chaytor
81. Minister, can you tell us how many people
you have working in the Treasury on sustainable development issues
and where they are located? Is there a dedicated team or do you
only have the Treasury tax team?
(John Healey) I cannot tell you that. I suspect there
may not be an answer to that because, consistent with the explanation
that I have tried to give on a number of fronts, what we are attempting
to do is to build questions and considerations about sustainable
development into all of our work across the piece rather than
have them isolated as a sort of specialist function. I will check
that for you, Mr Chaytor, and let you have that back. We may well
have experts that are dedicated to this but the principal point
I want to get across is that this is not a separate unit that
we use as a bolt-on to the policy making process. It is something
we are increasingly expecting of all officials in all policy areas
to be taking into account and be competent to do so.
(Mr O'Sullivan) I totally agree with that.
(John Healey) Good.
(Mr O'Sullivan) Always a good career move, is it not!
We do have an environmental and transport tax team that I head.
We have an environmental spending team that covers rural affairs.
So on the tax and spending side there is some core expertise although
we are keen to do this across the piece. It is also worth bearing
in mind that a lot of the policy leads on tax are with Customs
and the Inland Revenue and they have in those organisations similar
and often greater expertise than some of these specific environmental
issues.
82. Specifically within the Treasury, how many
individuals in the two teams?
(John Healey) Your original question was how many
are dedicated to sustainable development and I cannot give you
a direct answer. All I am saying is I suspect you will not find
people who are simply and solely dedicated to sustainable development
issues, but we will respond to that.
83. As part of the general consciousness raising
and the integration of policy across the department, what has
the Treasury done to train people or raise awareness? Did you
not intend to have an awareness raising session by the middle
of this year?
(John Healey) Mr Collins started to elaborate that
in response to Mr Wright so if he would like to carry on and tell
you about the seminar planned for tomorrow in the Treasury which
is part of what we are planning.
(Mr Collins) Certainly. I think there are probably
two sides to this. There are the specific bits of training and
development that individuals go through as part of their general
induction into life in the Treasury. Obviously an important part
of that is economic analysis and the sort of core Treasury training
courses that we are all required to undertake include a set component
that particularly looks at environmental issues and valuing environmental
factors. More generally—and this is the second component
to Treasury policy—we run regularly various seminars and
conferences on environmental and sustainable development issues.
We have had two this year particularly on sustainable development
in SR2002. We had a seminar with Jonathon Porritt, Chairman of
the Sustainable Development Commission, back in May and we had
a seminar with David Pearce who is a Professor from University
College, London, and a renowned expert on cost/benefit analysis
particularly in the environmental field, scheduled for tomorrow.
So there is a fairly steady stream of seminars and development
opportunities within the Treasury.
(John Healey) Are we able to extend an invitation
to members of this Committee to attend that seminar tomorrow?
(Mr Collins) I do not see why not.
84. With longer notice that would have been
very interesting. Can I return to internal audit. Am I right in
thinking that internal audit has done its first review of environmental
issues recently and is that report going to be published? Is it
going to be completed and is it going to be publicly available?
(Mr Collins) I would need to check that to find out
precisely what is happening. I know that an audit of that sort
has been carried out, but I do not know what its status is at
this precise moment in time. I would need to get back to you on
that.
Mr Chaytor: That would be useful.
Chairman
85. Minister, I think we will bring proceedings
to a close. Thank you for coming to discuss a very wide range
of subjects—I think that is the penance for being a Treasury
Minister—and doing it without your jacket on, which I think
is some sort of record.
(John Healey) I have to say I am regretting that now!
Chairman: There may be one are two things you
will want to follow up by written questions1 but I think we will
do it that way rather than prolong the session. Thank you very
much, Minister.
1 Please see supplementary memorandum from HM Treasury.
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