Examination of Witness (Questions 520-538)
Thursday 22 May 2003
MR RUSSELL
FOSTER
Q520 Mr Chaytor: Going back to universities,
can you tell us about your relationship with universities? You
have signed a memorandum with the Environmental Association for
Universities and Colleges?
Mr Foster: We did.
Q521 Mr Chaytor: What is the impact
of that?
Mr Foster: I very much see that
we have to work very closely with universities and colleges in
this country for two reasons. First of all, we need to get the
message about the environment across to the academics within it—I
think that is absolutely crucial—and I believe in partnership
and I believe in working with these people, but we also need to
try and capture the students going through university, encourage
them to become members of our Institute, and hopefully capture
them for life because they will start off as student members of
our Institute who will hopefully then allude to going all the
way up through the profession to chartership, so I see it as a
win/win, working with universities. It also gives the universities
an opportunity to pick our brains about what is happening within
the environment, so I was very keen to work with the EAUC on this
initiative.
Q522 Mr Chaytor: In terms of the
memorandum, what is the essence of it? Is it largely about advice
on estate management, or the curriculum?
Mr Foster: It is promotion of
what each other is up to and a good relationship, in that anybody
from the universities can link into all the facilities that we
have within the Institute, and likewise we can start to go to
universities, lecture at universities—whatever else—to
promote ourselves but also the need for these students, if they
are doing environmental courses, to get the professional body
behind them. On this initiative, there are other environmental
institutes out there in the arena but none of them seem to want
to push forward at that level, and I am very keen that we should.
Q523 Chairman: What dialogue have
you had with other organisations like, for example, the Royal
Institute of Environmental Health?
Mr Foster: Personally? Not a great
deal of contact at all. In fact, none. The only way that institutes
like ours and theirs talk to each other is if there is some sort
of alliance formed and people want to come along, like the sustainability
alliance. Normally institutes do not talk to each other.
Q524 Mr Ainsworth: You talked about
an environmental bandwagon. This Committee will think it is good
that there is one to jump on to. Who are you worried about?
Mr Foster: I think it is good
to jump on the environmental bandwagon provided the wheels do
not come off it—that is the problem we have—and I
think there are many people out there who wave an environmental
flag because they genuinely want to be part of the environment
but there are others who wave a flag because they see it is a
commercial opportunity for them, and we have to keep the two apart.
I am very worried that there are not necessarily institutes but
bodies out there who see that the environment is rich pickings
for them for the future.
Q525 Mr Ainsworth: But that is good,
surely?
Mr Foster: No, you are totally
wrong, because they do not understand the messages of it. That
is what I am trying to get over to you.
Q526 Mr Ainsworth: We will have to
differ. I think you are seeking to protect your membership, which
is a perfectly legitimate thing to do but we differ. I am sorry.
Mr Foster: That is okay.
Q527 Mr Chaytor: Just coming back
to the educational institutions and looking at further education,
have you had any discussions or negotiation with the emerging
Sector Skills Councils, or the Learning and Skills Council?
Mr Foster: To be perfectly honest
no, we have not, but I would encourage doing that if I was able
to.
Q528 Mrs Clark: Taking you back to
some of your earlier comments about your relationships with professional
partnerships, is your organisation a member of the PPforP initiative?
Mr Foster: I know what you are
talking about, and that is the Institute of Environmental Sciences
initiative. The simple answer is no, we are not, and we never
have been asked to be. However, the IES is one of the constituent
bodies that sits under the umbrella of the Society for the Environment,
so we work with IES but we have not signed up to that.
Q529 Mrs Clark: Are you considering
doing so? Would there be any advantages?
Mr Foster: I do not see any advantage
in it. The good thing about the setting up of what is now a four-year
initiative of the environmental forum under the Society for the
Environment is that all of the institutes that currently operate
in the environmental field have had an opportunity to sit round
the table for three years now and create this society. Now, it
is my belief that, as this society grows and becomes the voice
for the environment, there will be other institutes that are not
necessarily full blown environmental institutes but which do have
a vested interest in the environment like the Royal Society for
Chemistry. Where we differ now and where you think I am defending
the Institute, I am not. I am defending the profession.
Q530 Mr Chaytor: What is interesting
is the picture we are getting which is of I do not say huge chaos
within the professions but an enormous number of separate bodies
each vying to preserve their status and existence—which
is Peter Ainsworth's point—and a minimum, if not zero, level
of co-operation, so obviously the forming of the Society for the
Environment is an important step.
Mr Foster: It goes a long way
in this.
Q531 Mr Chaytor: But how do you assess
the progress because from us looking at the outside this would
appear to be the obvious thing that should have been done many
years ago. The separate identity of all the different professional
bodies is really holding progress back.
Mr Foster: I agree. Let's compare,
say, health and safety. Within that you have the British Safety
Council and the Institute of Occupational Study in Health, who
are probably the two most dominant players within the safety field
now, but we are looking at a 50 or 60 year old profession. If
you look at the environment profession which is about 20 years
old and imagine that in 30 years' time you probably will have
one or two very dominant players in that, what we have at the
minute is something in its infancy, very small institutes of only
800/1000 members, who thankfully are part of the Society. What
we will have in the future is an amalgamation of these institutes,
so there will be very large bodies within the environment that
will operate and become the focal point or the conduit for everything
to do with the environment. We are in our infancy, in early days,
and I am very conscious that the decisions we make in our Institute
and in some of the other institutes will mould the way our profession
goes in the future. What I am saying is it is absolutely crucial
that the people working in this profession have some standards
to adhere to, so we do know that the people who say they are environmental
auditors are of the right calibre because they have a certain
qualification.
Q532 Chairman: Are there any particular
skills that you have identified which relate to sustainable development
which are not being adequately supported and encouraged by the
formal education system?
Mr Foster: I am a great believer
that you have to demonstrate what you are doing, so I think there
is a need within skills to show some sort of workplace development
that you have done to do that. I have not any specific ideas of
this but let us suppose somebody wanted to say they were a sustainable
development professional, they would have to prove what they had
done in order to show that and show how they have taken the whole
idea of sustainable development and entwined it within the philosophy
of the company they work for, or whatever.
Q533 Chairman: Have you been approached
by other professional bodies not primarily related to their professions?
Mr Foster: Yes.
Q534 Chairman: Could you give examples?
Mr Foster: We have worked with
the British Safety Council because they want to produce a 5-star
sustainability audit regime where companies can apply for the
5-star audit and this will mean that, if they reach that, they
get these five stars and that is the acknowledgement that they
are at the top of the sustainability ladder. I am comfortable
to help them with that because I would rather it was done correctly,
and there are a lot of institutes like the British Safety Council—although
it is not an institute—bodies who want to work with us,
and I am comfortable with that.
Q535 Chairman: Can you see yourselves
advising on educational establishments as well?
Mr Foster: I like to think so.
This is where the link with the EAUC is very useful.
Q536 Chairman: What about Sector
Skills Councils? What sort of relationship have you got with them?
Mr Foster: Very poor, but I wish
it was better.
Q537 Chairman: You are probably not
alone in that! Finally, will you be contributing to the Government's
Skills White Paper?
Mr Foster: We will be, yes.
Q538 Chairman: I am very conscious
of the time; we have tried to squeeze a lot into three short sessions
today so can I thank you very much indeed for sharing the work
that you are doing with us, and we hope very much that our own
report, when it comes out from the Environmental Audit Select
Committee, will be able to contribute towards more awareness about
education on the environment.
Mr Foster: Let me just say that,
if there is anything else you need, the Clerk knows where I am.
Chairman: Thank you.
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