Examination of Witness (Questions 60-64)
TUESDAY 25 FEBRUARY 2003
MR PETER
GRAY
60. Would you agree with me that one of the
by-products of the Government's desire for the LEAs to devolve
very high proportions of their education budgets can be in the
special needs area where the arrival of one or two children in
a particular year's cohort can utterly imbalance that school's
budget if the special needs budget of the county hall has been
devolved in a less than intelligent way, and that can make for
real difficulties?
(Mr Gray) I think that is absolutely right. Again,
looking at the Nottinghamshire example, one of the benefits of
that is devolving money to a cluster of schools to have that kind
of flexibility. If you delegate to an individual school it will
be too little for the amount that you might have to have for a
child who might have very big needs. That is a way forward. My
understanding of government policy on this is that they have last
year allowed money to be delegated to clusters of schools rather
than just devolved to clusters of schools or devolved to a named
school who will manage it on behalf of the cluster. I do not know
whether any decision has been made about that long term but I
think that kind of development and initiative should be further
explored.
Chairman
61. We come on lastly to transport, which you
mentioned in your submission and others do too. You make the point,
which is absolutely right, that children who have got either physical
or learning difficulties are often in a taxi or mini bus or bus
for over an hour before they get to school and before they get
back, plus the difficulty of sometimes finding sufficient escorts
to take those children who might be prone to fitting or whatever.
Can you say a little bit about what you would like to see LEAs
doing to assist with the provision of transport for children with
special educational needs? What should government be looking at
in this area?
(Mr Gray) I think local authorities are finding special
needs transport a hugely costly area across the board, not just
rural authorities but urban authorities. Costs have gone up. There
are long distances for children to travel, particularly to special
schools in rural areas, because the transport will go round to
a number of different places and that, as you say, leads to a
very long journey for some children. To some extent having children
being educated more locally can reduce some of that travel distance
in terms of children but clearly the use of taxis for individual
children when other children are going on buses sets those children
apart and is not a particularly inclusive approach.
62. And you often have to supply an escort in
a taxi which doubles the cost.
(Mr Gray) I was interested in what the previous witnesses
were saying in relation to smaller transport and the possibility
of smaller buses going to more local areas and potentially that
being adaptable to enable some children who currently may go through
the taxi route. Inevitably, we feel that part and parcel of education
of children with special educational needs is they should be supported
to try to learn to be as independent as possible and using transport.
For some children that is not going to be possible. For some children
with more complex needs, I think we indicated in our submission,
particularly at secondary level and post-16 level, the lack of
available transport could be inhibiting on their ability to mix
with other children on a leisure basis particularly if their parents
are not able to convey them.
63. We are aware of the problem, but what can
government or local authorities be doing about this?
(Mr Gray) I do not think we have got an answer to
that, to be honest.
64. That is fair enough and honest. An intractable
problem?
(Mr Gray) I think it is an intractable problem but
looking at different ways and supporting different ways of organising
transport, particularly in rural areas, would be an important
development.
Chairman: On that note, thank you very much
Mr Gray. Thank you for your submission. May I compliment you on
that as my colleague did. I thought it was very well put together.
Thank you very much.
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