Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witness (Questions 60-64)

TUESDAY 25 FEBRUARY 2003

MR PETER GRAY

  60. Would you agree with me that one of the by-products of the Government's desire for the LEAs to devolve very high proportions of their education budgets can be in the special needs area where the arrival of one or two children in a particular year's cohort can utterly imbalance that school's budget if the special needs budget of the county hall has been devolved in a less than intelligent way, and that can make for real difficulties?
  (Mr Gray) I think that is absolutely right. Again, looking at the Nottinghamshire example, one of the benefits of that is devolving money to a cluster of schools to have that kind of flexibility. If you delegate to an individual school it will be too little for the amount that you might have to have for a child who might have very big needs. That is a way forward. My understanding of government policy on this is that they have last year allowed money to be delegated to clusters of schools rather than just devolved to clusters of schools or devolved to a named school who will manage it on behalf of the cluster. I do not know whether any decision has been made about that long term but I think that kind of development and initiative should be further explored.

Chairman

  61. We come on lastly to transport, which you mentioned in your submission and others do too. You make the point, which is absolutely right, that children who have got either physical or learning difficulties are often in a taxi or mini bus or bus for over an hour before they get to school and before they get back, plus the difficulty of sometimes finding sufficient escorts to take those children who might be prone to fitting or whatever. Can you say a little bit about what you would like to see LEAs doing to assist with the provision of transport for children with special educational needs? What should government be looking at in this area?
  (Mr Gray) I think local authorities are finding special needs transport a hugely costly area across the board, not just rural authorities but urban authorities. Costs have gone up. There are long distances for children to travel, particularly to special schools in rural areas, because the transport will go round to a number of different places and that, as you say, leads to a very long journey for some children. To some extent having children being educated more locally can reduce some of that travel distance in terms of children but clearly the use of taxis for individual children when other children are going on buses sets those children apart and is not a particularly inclusive approach.

  62. And you often have to supply an escort in a taxi which doubles the cost.
  (Mr Gray) I was interested in what the previous witnesses were saying in relation to smaller transport and the possibility of smaller buses going to more local areas and potentially that being adaptable to enable some children who currently may go through the taxi route. Inevitably, we feel that part and parcel of education of children with special educational needs is they should be supported to try to learn to be as independent as possible and using transport. For some children that is not going to be possible. For some children with more complex needs, I think we indicated in our submission, particularly at secondary level and post-16 level, the lack of available transport could be inhibiting on their ability to mix with other children on a leisure basis particularly if their parents are not able to convey them.

  63. We are aware of the problem, but what can government or local authorities be doing about this?
  (Mr Gray) I do not think we have got an answer to that, to be honest.

  64. That is fair enough and honest. An intractable problem?
  (Mr Gray) I think it is an intractable problem but looking at different ways and supporting different ways of organising transport, particularly in rural areas, would be an important development.

  Chairman: On that note, thank you very much Mr Gray. Thank you for your submission. May I compliment you on that as my colleague did. I thought it was very well put together. Thank you very much.





 
previous page contents next page

House of Commons home page Parliament home page House of Lords home page search page enquiries index

© Parliamentary copyright 2003
Prepared 5 June 2003