Formal minutes
Thursday 5 June 2003
Members present:
Mr Richard Bacon
Mr William Cash
Mr Michael Connarty
Mr Wayne David
Jim Dobbin | | Mr Mark Hendrick
Angus Robertson
John Robertson
Mr Anthony Steen
Mr Bill Tynan
|
In the absence of the Chairman, Mr Michael Connarty was called
to the Chair.
The Committee deliberated.
Draft Report [Convention on the Future of Europe and the Role
of National Parliaments], proposed by the Chairman,[61]
brought up and read.
Draft Report [Convention on the Future of Europe and the Role
of National Parliaments], proposed by Mr Cash, brought up and
read, as follows:
We repeat the fundamental objections, in principle, which we expressed
with Angela Watkinson MP in the alternative draft Report submitted
to the Committee in June 2002.
Since then the European Convention has published its interim proposals
for the proposed European Constitution. No Member State has objected
to these proposals and the United Kingdom Government has concurred
in the principle of a European Constitution, although it has proposed
certain amendments. These amendments are by no means consistent
with, for example, the statement of the Foreign Secretary in the
Times newspaper of May 28th in respect of the proposed
European Constitution: "The new European Constitution [sic]
is also something Britain supports. It will create a stable rule
book setting out clearly the primacy of nation states."
Despite the provisions of Article 1-5 regarding national identities,
Articles 1-1, 1-9, 1-10 and 1-11, which will collectively override
Article 1-5, clearly provide the prevailing principle that the
"European Constitution establishes the European Union on
which the Member States confer competences to obtain objectives
they have in common" and that "the Union shall coordinate
the policies by which the Member States aim to achieve these objectives
...". This is reinforced by Article 1-10 which asserts that
"The European Constitution, [note the comma] and law adopted
by the Union's Institutions in exercising competences conferred
on it, shall have primacy over the law of the Member States".
The statement of the Foreign Secretary flies in the face of the
proposals.
These provisions (in addition to those conferring exclusive and
shared competence on critical matters of significance (Articles
1-12 and 13)) and conferring legal personality (Article 1-6) and
Article 1-9 (as well as other provisions) amount to a revolutionary
principle that the proposed European Constitution overrides the
United Kingdom Parliament's authority and sovereignty in principle.
Article A of Part III of the proposed Constitution would repeal
the existing Treaties and provide, as set out, for a consolidated
new Treaty, with critically important new powers, de novo, and
with the incorporation of a new principle of the superiority of
the Constitution over our own, apart from the primacy of individual
laws, and justiciable by the European Court of Justice as a new
Supreme Court of the European Union. This will undermine our
democratic principles of government, the voter in the General
Election choosing which laws are to govern us and the practical
effect of Questions in Parliament holding Ministers to account
in critical areas of the levers of government, with full discussion
in public and on the record.
It may be argued that none of this alters the sovereignty of the
UK Parliament, namely that no Parliament can bind its successors,
and that it would be open to any future Parliament, if a Bill
were enacted approving these provisions, to amend or repeal these
provisions in their application to the United Kingdom and that
the proposed Constitution provides for withdrawal for any Member
States which so determines. The withdrawal provisions, however,
which we hope would not need to be invoked, are dependent within
the proposed Constitution on QMV and the consent of the European
Parliament — not the freely negotiated agreement of a sovereign
Parliament.
This proposed European Constitution is far removed from the principles
previously put to the British people in the White Papers which
have been published on the constitutional and legal implications
of United Kingdom Membership of the EC/EU, including Cmnd 3301
(1967), not to mention the advice of the Lord Chancellor (Lord
Kilmuir) to Edward Heath of 14 December 1960 and subsequent White
Papers, all of which encompass an entirely different set of circumstances.
A new White Paper on the same implications is therefore now essential,
as is also, following such a White Paper, a Referendum on the
principles and revolutionary policies involved in the proposed
Constitution and before the IGC has concluded and a Bill presented
to Parliament.
Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Chairman's draft
Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph. —
(The Chairman.)
Amendment proposed, to leave out 'Chairman's draft Report' and
insert 'draft Report proposed by Mr William Cash'. — (Mr
William Cash.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 2
Mr Richard Bacon
Mr William Cash
| | Noes, 4
Mr Wayne David
Jim Dobbin
Angus Robertson
Mr Bill Tynan
|
Main Question put and agreed to.
Ordered, That the Chairman's draft Report be read a second
time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraph 1 read.
An Amendment made.
Amendment proposed, in line 11, at the end to add 'The acceptance
of the principle of a constitutional treaty or constitution by
the EU Member States for the EU would mark the final stage in
the ending of the United Kingdom as an independent nation State.'
— (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 2 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 5, at the end to add 'with its alternative
draft Report by William Cash MP and Angela Watkinson MP.' —
(Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 3 to 5 agreed to.
Paragraph 6 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 1, at the beginning to insert 'The
national parliaments are in grave danger, including our own, of
betraying the trust of the voters they represent by accepting
undemocratic European Government and these constitutional proposals.'
— (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 7 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 2, after 'made.' to insert 'by Government
and if necessary to amend or overturn those decisions by democratic
vote.' — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 2, to leave out 'these' and
insert 'information and time'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Amendments made.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 8 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 2, to leave out 'it is not clear
that'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 3, to leave out 'a' and insert
'no'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Amendments made.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 9 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraph 10 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 2, after 'have', to insert 'astonishingly
and negligently failed to insist on and argue for their proper
democratic role and have'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 11 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 12 to 14 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 15 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 5, after 'promptly' to insert 'and
before decisions are finally taken'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 16 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 12, at the end to add 'We insist however
that individual parliaments must retain the right to veto decisions
and to amend or repeal European legislation if they so determine
on behalf of their electors.' — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 17 to 21 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 22 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 7, at the end to add 'We object to
the reduction of their role to one of mere "involvement"'.
— (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 23 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 2, after 'fall' to insert 'far'. —
(Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
An Amendment made.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 24 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 25 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 1, after 'organised' to insert 'and
proliferating with serious adverse consequences for democratic
decision-making'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 26 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 3, leave out 'are disappointed' and
insert 'object'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 27 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 28 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 8, at the end to add 'National parliaments
are not merely to be involved but are to be treated as pivotal
to the democratic process with the right to vote, amend or repeal
European legislation.' — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 29 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 11, at the end to add 'We insist that
any national parliament, not one third of them, shall have such
rights.' — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 30 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 4, at the end to add 'and because
it should apply to any one parliament.' — (Mr William
Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 31 to 33 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 34 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 1, to leave out 'support' and insert
'reject'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 4, to leave out from 'proposal.'
to the end of line 7 and add 'and we propose that this proposal
should apply to any one parliament.' — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 35 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 36 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 13, at the end to add 'Indeed we repeat
our insistence that national parliaments with democratic accountable
procedures individually are the pivot of the democratic process.'
— (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 37 to 39 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 40 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 10, at the end to add 'We believe
that these should be based on the assumption that national parliaments
individually are the pivot of the democratic process.' —
(Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 41 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 42 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 11, at the end to add 'We believe
that this reflects the desire of other Member States to shift
ESDP away from national autonomy and reflects the UK Government
failure to insist on this in practice.' — (Mr William
Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 43 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 11, before 'There' to insert 'In recognition
of the requirement that ESDP remains within the autonomy of individual
Member States,'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 16, at the end to add 'Decisions
which are taken within the assembly shall be unanimous.' —
(Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 44 to 46 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 47 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 7, to leave out 'would be worthwhile'
and insert 'is essential'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Amendment proposed, in line 10, to leave out 'active involvement
of national parliaments' and insert 'pivotal role of national
parliaments individually'. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 15, at the end to add 'and
to veto, amend or repeal European legislation if they so determine.'
— (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraph 48 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 1, to leave out 'sound'. — (Mr
William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 49 and 50 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 51 read, amended, divided and agreed to (now paragraphs
51 and 52).
Paragraph 52 read and agreed to (now paragraph 53).
Paragraph 53 read.
An Amendment made.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 12, at the end to add 'It
will also be necessary to reassert the right of the UK Parliament
to amend or repeal any such legislation derived from the above.'
— (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to (now paragraph 54).
Paragraph 54 read, amended and agreed to (now paragraph 55).
Paragraph 55 read and agreed to (now paragraph 56).
Paragraph 56 read, amended and agreed to (now paragraph 57).
Paragraphs 57 to 61 read and agreed to (now paragraphs 58 to 62).
Paragraph 62 read, amended and agreed to (now paragraph 63).
A paragraph — (The Chairman) — brought up,
read the first and second time, and added (now paragraph 64).
Paragraph 63 read and agreed to (now paragraph 65).
Paragraph 64 read, amended and agreed to (now paragraph 66).
Paragraph 65 read and agreed to (now paragraph 67).
Paragraph 66 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 1, after 'Council' to insert 'which
did not expressly authorise a constitutional treaty'. —
(Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to (now paragraph 68).
Paragraph 67 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 1, to leave out from the beginning
to 'As' in line 2. — (Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to (now paragraph 69).
Paragraphs 68 to 71 read and agreed to (now paragraphs 70 to 73).
Paragraph 72 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 2, to leave out 'carefully considered
by' and insert 'fully debated on the Floor of the House of Commons
following the publication of a White Paper by the Government with
at least two days allocated for the purpose and by other'. —
(Mr William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 3, at the end to add 'and
the Government must commit itself to a referendum on the principle,
at least, of a European Constitution before seeking to implement
it by Bill in the United Kingdom Parliament.' — (Mr
William Cash.)
Question, That the Amendment be made, put and negatived.
Paragraph agreed to (now paragraph 74).
Resolved, That the Report, as amended, be the Twenty-Fourth
Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134
(Select Committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.
[Adjourned till Wednesday 18 June at half-past Two o'clock.
61 The Report was prepared by Mr Jimmy Hood, the Chairman
of the committee. Subsequent references to the Chairman, however,
are to Mr Michael Connarty, who was the Chairman on the day. Back
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