Examination of Witness (Questions 90-99)
MR JOSEPH
WINTER
TUESDAY 21 JANUARY 2003
Chairman
90. Welcome, Mr Winter, to the Committee. You
were the World Service's correspondent in Zimbabwe. You were expelled
in 2001, since when the World Service has had no permanent presence
in Zimbabwe, but have reporters in neighbouring countries or in
London. Can you first of all tell us about the coverage of the
World Service in Zimbabwe? What can you tell us about the listener
profile?
(Mr Winter) First of all I would also
like to go back and make a couple of alterations to the introduction.
I now work for News On-Line. When I was expelled from Zimbabwe
I was working for the World Service. Also, since then we have
had a Zimbabwean journalist who replaced me, Lewis Machipisa,
who has carried on working and sending regular reports.
91. Inside Zimbabwe?
(Mr Winter) Yes. In Harare and also somebody else
in Bulawayo, the capital of Matebeleland, Thabo Kunene. He has
often been sending reports both for the World Service and for
News On-Line. There has been some coverage and certainly Lewis
Machipisa has been sending possibly daily reports—or every
other day—whenever there has been a big story in the past
two years.
92. Are there any restrictions on their work,
their travel?
(Mr Winter) No, but now a new law restricting the
work of journalists has just come into effect and so they are
both waiting for accreditation under this new law. Mr Machipisa
is waiting. I believe that Thabo Kunene in Bulawayo is currently
in hiding. They have had certain threats. On Sunday the information
minister publicly, in an interview with a state newpaper—
93. Is that Mr Moyo?
(Mr Winter) Yes, Jonathan Moyo. In an interview with
the Sunday Mail, a state-run newspaper, Jonathan Moyo called
Lewis Machipisa a sell out for working with the BBC, which is
obviously some kind of threat.
94. Is that feared as a prelude to something
worse?
(Mr Winter) It is possible. He has also had threatening
phone calls and things, yes.
95. What can you tell us about those who listen
to the World Service in Zimbabwe? What research have you done?
(Mr Winter) I believe it is a fairly high number of
people listen to the World Service in Zimbabwe[3].
It is not as many as the World Service would like because across
Africa the World Service is trying to set up FM relay stations
and in Zimbabwe that has not been possible; the government has
not allowed that to happen. I have forgotten the figures, the
actual numbers of people. But Lewis Machipisa was just telling
me the other day that he was stopped at a police road block and
the policeman asked him his name. He gave his name and the policeman
said, "Ah, you work for the BBC". As he was telling
me this story my heart was sinking; I was expecting the policeman
to get out a truncheon and start hitting him or something. He
said that he worked for the BBC and the policeman said, "I
love your stories, I really enjoy it; I listen everyday to Focus
on Africa". So there is a wide cross-section of people who
listen to the World Service.
Mr Illsley
96. You mentioned that the FM relay stations
cannot be implemented in Zimbabwe. What is the situation with
getting broadcasts into Zimbabwe? Is the resource there from the
World Service and from the BBC in general to ensure that transmissions
are broadcast widely in the country or are there problems there?
Are there are other issues that the BBC should be looking at to
provide more resource? Or should the Government provide more resource?
(Mr Winter) It is broadcast via short wave which is
broadcast from somewhere in the Indian Ocean I think. There did
used to be a medium wave transmitter based in Lesotho and I believe
that has stopped within the BBC World Service. The future is FM
rather than medium wave. That has possibly not helped the coverage
in Zimbabwe. The BBC cannot broadcast on FM in Zimbabwe. The Zimbabwean
Government has no control over short wave broadcasts.
97. The World Service are looking to get FM
relay as far as it can around the world. Presumably short wave
will still be available within Zimbabwe for people who listen.
(Mr Winter) Yes, certainly.
98. The World Service were not planning to transfer
over to FM relay before the more recent problems began in Zimbabwe
were they?
(Mr Winter) In America they have stopped broadcasting
in short wave. There are some people who are not happy with that.
In Africa, certainly in Zimbabwe, the majority of the population
are still rural so you cannot cover the whole country on FM. The
idea was always to have FM in the big towns where short wave reception
is less good because of all the interference of mobile phones,
TV's, radios and buildings. You would have FM in the big towns
and short wave for rural areas. I am not aware of any move to
cut down short wave transmission to Africa.
99. Is there anything the British Government
should be doing to assist in this situation, to assist in the
protection of journalists, or do you think that is not necessary?
(Mr Winter) Certainly I would hope that if anything
were to happen to Lewis Machipisa or Thabo Kunene or anyone else
who is working for the BBC I would hope that, even though they
are Zimbabwean, the British High Commission there would be able
to help them, as they certainly helped me a great deal and were
very useful when I was expelled. I would hope that if the secret
police went round to their houses in the middle of the night that
they would be able to fall on the services of the High Commission.
3 See also Ev 15-16. Back
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