Examination of Witnesses (Questions 180-199)
MR TOM
DAVIES AND
MR MICHAEL
PAYNE
TUESDAY 28 JANUARY 2003
David Winnick
180. The responsibility for getting detainees
into a situation where they can put their affairs in order is
not your responsibility?
(Mr Payne) It is not our responsibility but we have
to deal with the consequence of it.
181. You have said in written evidence and I
quote, "Immigration Service are not allowing detainees enough
time to get their affairs in order: for example, closing bank
accounts, having property delivered to them for their flight."
That is evidence that your organisation has given.
(Mr Payne) It is a fact, sir. I have examples of that
in my memory as well as recent events last weekend.
182. I do not suppose that a good number would
have bank accounts but, be that as it may, do you make representation
to the Home Office on a regular basis when you feel that, in so
many words, more sensitivity could be applied?
(Mr Payne) We have regular contract review meetings
with the contract manager and the management of the Home Office
in relation to each individual contract, but the meetings beyond
that are not regular more than to the extent of two or three times
a year.
183. I wonder if I can put this to you in rather
blunt terms. As we all know, there is a high concern in the country
at the moment over asylum seekers; there is a general feeling
that there are far too many, that they are not being removed quick
enough and all the rest of it. Do you think this has some effect
inevitably on the people concerned, the Home Office Immigration
Service, your organisation and those allied to your organisation
regarding asylum seekers?
(Mr Payne) I think as a peripheral conversation topic,
yes.
184. That was not really what I was asking;
perhaps I put it in an inappropriate way. I would be surprised
if it were otherwise than a topic of conversation amongst employees.
What I am asking is, is there a general sort of insensitivity
arising from that feeling which exists in the country at the moment?
(Mr Payne) Certainly not. We are trained to deal with
the problem at hand and we will continue to train our officers
to be impartial and express a duty of care to all the charges
that are put in our custody.
185. That is fine and that is good, but how
do you follow that up to make sure that is carried out in practice?
(Mr Payne) We monitor the performance of our officers.
We have supervisors, assistant managers and managers and they
monitor the performance of our individuals. We seek reports on
every eventuality that is out of the ordinary.
186. And that is actually done in practice?
(Mr Payne) Indeed, yes.
Chairman
187. Going back to this point about detainees
not having time to sort out their affairs, you say you have made
representations to IND; what response have you had?
(Mr Payne) May I take advice on that?
188. By all means, yes.
(Mr Payne) We have not and I am advised that it is
something that is not deemed to be part of our prerogative to
advise.
189. You say that your people have to deal with
the consequences.
(Mr Payne) That is right.
190. So, it is only fair that your opinion and
your experience be taken into account and you are saying that
it is not being taken into account?
(Mr Payne) It has not been happening.
191. You said that you had examples from as
recently as last weekend.
(Mr Payne) These are pragmatic examples of where we
have to deal with the situation at hand.
192. Please tell us.
(Mr Payne) Last weekend, for example, we had to remove
an individual who had been given notice of removal on the Saturday
morning for a Sunday evening flight and he had been living in
the country for eight years. I am not seeking sympathy for the
individual because I understand that the process of law has to
proceed, but the fact of the matter was that he had his own house
with a mortgage and family etc to sort out and from the Saturday
morning to the Sunday afternoon is not very practical.
193. Were you removing the whole family?
(Mr Payne) Yes.
194. To which country?
(Mr Payne) I do not know.
195. Could you send us the details of that.
(Mr Payne) Of course.
196. That would be very helpful. How long do
people stay in detention? I appreciate that it varies obviously,
but, generally speaking, once they have been detained and delivered
to a detention centre, how long are they likely to remain in the
detention centre?
(Mr Payne) I can only speak for the Tinsley House
Removal Centre because that comes under my remit. Nowadays, it
is as low as seven days. That is the average.
197. The average is seven days although the
case you just mentioned, after eight years, that was 24 hours.
(Mr Payne) No, eight years living in this country.
198. Yes, but he was only detained for 24 hours.
(Mr Payne) Yes.
199. I suppose that if you were there seven
days, you could make a few telephone calls and arrange for friends
to deliver some of your belongings.
(Mr Payne) It happens.
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