Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1020-1039)
THURSDAY 16 JANUARY 2003
MS NATALIE
STUART, MS
ANNA EAGLE,
MR JAY
BAILEY, MS
GEMMA MINTY,
MS RACHAEL
WARD AND
MR SCOTT
WILLIAMS
1020. What would you like to see being done
about that?
(Ms Stuart) You cannot really stop teenagers from
drinking, can you? There is nothing you can do. I stand there
for ages and someone will eventually get it for me. There is nothing
you can do about the alcohol bit. I think there is more pressure
on boys sometimes, because boys, even if they are friends, they
sit there and make fund of them, but girls obviously,with
Anna I would not start saying, "Oh, go on, go on", and
force her into it if I am her real friend, but boys do even if
they are friends, do they not? Yes, from your friends there is
pressure.
(Ms Eagle) I think it is more like a competition with
alcohol. It is like, all your mates are drinking, you have to
drink with them, otherwise you feel like a loser or something
or you feel left out or something like that.
1021. Do you think in terms of alcohol everybody
seems to be agreed is really difficult to tackle?
(Ms Eagle) Yes.
1022. With the peer pressure some talk about
having education, having young people coming to talk to young
people, maybe giving them different views. Do you think that would
help?
(Ms Eagle) I reckon that would not be a bad idea,
having young people do it and people you do not normally see in
school because you would not get so embarrassed to talk about
it.
(Ms Stuart) And maybe if they speak to them on their
own as well because they can ask their own questions, or in small
groups. If you are in a class and you have got a question, and
everyone is acting like they know what they are talking about
and you are the only one saying, "What is that?"I
think you should do it. If you are going to have a teacher I think
you should do it one on one because if they have got something
to ask they can ask it and they are not going to feel embarrassed.
You might feel a bit embarrassed with a teacher, but I do not
know.
1023. Natalie, you were saying earlier that
one of the things in class is that people are giggling and not
taking it seriously. Do you think it would be better to have peer
education but single sexyoung women separate from young
men?
(Ms Stuart) I think it would be better.
1024. You think it would be better?
(Ms Eagle) Because if you have women teaching women
or girls, you are going to talk to them more. If it is a man doing
it, you would be, "I am not going to talk to him about it".
(Ms Stuart) I know, because I can remember things
like, we will be sat in there and the teacher would explain about
a certain thing and then a boy would shout out, "Oh, yeah,
you know all about that", or something like that, and you
are all blocked off then. You do not want to know any more. You
do not want to say anything. You feel embarrassed. I have seen
the look when people do that to other people. I have seen how
people get shamed really quick, so it is the end.
1025. What about from Wigan, would you share
the view that alcohol and peer pressure were the top two?
(Ms Ward) Yes.
1026. Have you got any suggestions about what
else we could do about that?
(Mr Williams) It is image as well. For men image is
a very big thing. If you are part of a group of males and they
have all done it,, then obviously they are going to really intimidate
you and really put you out and try their hardest to make you an
outcast, so therefore you think, "They have done it. I have
got to do it or else therefore I am not part of the gang".
It is male image. You have got to be the man as such.
1027. Do you think the media should take more
responsibility or change the way they portray some of these issues?
(Mr Williams) Yes, sometimes. I think they should
be more supportive of young people.
(Ms Minty) I think sometimes, especially in the newspapers,
they stretch too far with celebrity kiss-and-tell and things like
that. That is really giving a bad reputation to the whole idea
of sex and stuff like that.
John Austin
1028. Can I follow up what Scott was saying
about the macho image? David in the earlier session referred to
that when I was asking about men and access to both sex education
and sexual health services, and that often they are excluded.
What do you think can be done to improve both access to education
and to sexual health services for young men, and how do you get
them turned on to it?
(Mr Williams) We need to overcome the image first,
do we not, and make it acceptable? I do not know how you are going
to do this. Do not ask me how. We need to get over the image of
young men have to do it. Young men have to go out and have sex.
That is how it is seen. If you are 15 or 16 at school and you
have not had sexafter you leave school the pressure is
off because when you go to college people do not know you. You
are in a whole different ball game. At school people know you
and if you have not had sex it is like you are a divide: men that
have had not had sex are geeks and men that have had sex are popular.
We need to get over this image. I think the sexual education would
be better for this because it would probably destroy the image
totally if young men found out that them having sex, like the
young lady said before about her 17-year old mate who had had
it 50 timesif he had found out what he could have caught
or what he could be carrying, or cervical cancer or whatever he
can get when he is older, I do not think he would have had sex
with 50 ladies because obviously he would have known the consequences.
I think sex education would be better for breaking down the image.
I have got a bit here, if you do not mind me moving on to contraception,
with young men. Where do young men get contraception? We get it
from public toilets or from pub toilets. We go in quick, put our
two pounds in, push the button, and if anybody comes in you stand
in front of the condom machine, "Hello. All right, mate?",
and when he goes out you take your condoms and you run. Another
thing about the pub toilets. It is a very big thing, if you pull
the girl, you go into the pub toilets, you get some, you might
get lucky. But they are poor quality condoms. They are really
poor quality condoms and they should be quality condoms because
they are supposed to stop or help prevent pregnancy, with also
other means of contraception. And they are overpriced. Condoms
are so expensive it is unbelievable. It is like paying for sex.
They are unbelievable, extortionate prices.
(Ms Minty) Some people have actually turned to stealing
condoms from the shops because they cannot travel to Brooke because
it might not be open at the time when they need them. They are
too embarrassed to go in the pub, so they go in the chemist's
and grab a couple of boxes, put them in their pocket and run out
again. It is disgraceful that the prices are so high and people
cannot afford to buy them.
(Mr Williams) And that brings in unsafe sex then,
which is probably why we have got such a rise in STIs. The price
of condoms could reflect on the rise in STIs because if you are
not having safe sex there are going to be some issues in that.
I have got some ways in which we get condoms. We steal them. We
get older people to get them for us. If you are young, chemists
are very moralistic and they might look down on you and think,
"Are you old enough to have sex? I cannot sell you condoms
because you are not old enough."
Dr Naysmith
1029. Is that true? Does that happen?
(Ms Minty) Yes.
(Mr Williams) Yes, it does happen.
1030. People refuse to sell you condoms?
(Mr Williams) If you are under age you are not supposed
to be having sex and chemists might feel restricted because of
the law. That is why we result to stealing them, or you might
dare your male to go in and get them. Males are dead embarrassed
about walking in and asking,"Top shelf", you
know. "I dare you to go and get a pack of condoms. Go onI
dare you." And I think, "Yeah, I'm a big man".
It is a dare. You cannot back down to a dare, so you go in and
buy them. "Oh, you bought them", so I wink and I have
got a packet of condoms. Chemists are not very confidential, and
neither is your doctor. You walk into your doctor's or your chemist
and one of your Mum's mates is in there. "I saw your kid
in the chemist's the other day".
Andy Burnham
1031. It is quite reassuring that there is still
that taboo around.
(Mr Williams) It will not change.
John Austin
1032. Let me pursue something else about attitudes
of men. It is said that a lot of men believe that the taking of
precautions and contraception is the woman's responsibility.
(Mr Williams) I think that is very stereotypical in
a way because a lot of men that I talk to and lads that I talk
to at college are very conscious about when they are having sex
and the precautions because we now k now about pregnancy. When
you are at college and you are trying to make a life for yourself
you do not want a baby, do you? In some circumstancesI
do not know; you will be better at thisdoes it stop you
from doing things? Does it shorten your life?
(Ms Eagle) Yes. It stops you doing stuff you want
to do because you have to walk around with a child.
1033. Let us move away from the pregnancy. Suppose
someone was on the pill. To what degree is there an awareness
among young men of the need still to take precautions?
(Mr Williams) If a girl was to say, "I am on
the pill", I would probably step back and say, "Yes,
fair enough. You are on the pill. There is not a big chance of
you getting pregnant, so let's go for it." But thinking about
the STIs, that should come in again and say, "Well, I should
use it just in case I catch something". It is all relating
to sex education again and how poor it is really in some circumstances.
It all needs to link to each other, that if you have sex, fair
enough, she might be on the pill, but you might catch something
sleeping with her unsafely.
Andy Burnham
1034. I asked the last group about these mixed
messages that society throws at you, that you have images of sex
chucked at you from all quarters, films, music, media, internet,
and pressure to become sexually active at a young age and then
the other side of the coin is very poor services, very poor sex
education in schools, the British "we do not talk about that
kind of thing". Do you feel that is confusing for young people,
that mixture?
(Ms Minty) Yes, because you read through magazines
and you see all these people who are really pretty and they are
all dressed up in their really sexy, slinky clothes, and you think
that is acceptable. But then again you have your Mum or someone
else going, "Oh, no, you can't go out wearing that. You look
like a trollop", and stuff like that. It is so confusing
because you do not which category to fall into.
(Mr Williams) The media is contrary to what your Mum
is saying and you do not want to go with. You want to be in with
the group and wearing the nice clothes but you do not want to
go against your family.
1035. Who is wrong though? Is the media wrong
for forcing it down your throat a bit too much?
(Mr Williams) Yes, actually, I think it is wrong,
because they always put the nice-looking girls or the nice-looking
men in the nice suits and on the adverts they put the girls round
them, like "the Lynx effect". They do that with a lot
of adverts, do they not?
1036. But a lot of young people like them. It
sells magazines, does it not?
(Mr Williams) Oh, yes, it sells magazines, but it
should be
1037. Less in your face?
(Mr Williams) Yes, and less provocative.
1038. Do you feel the same?
(Ms Eagle) Yes, we do.
1039. That there is this mixture. It is like
society cannot make up its mind about sex. On the one hand it
would rather not talk about it and on the other it is everywhere.
(Ms Eagle) You look somewhere and see one thing, and
you look somewhere else and see another thing.
|