Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1160-1164)
THURSDAY 23 JANUARY 2003
MS HAZEL
BLEARS MP AND
MR STEPHEN
TWIGG MP
Chairman
1160. Can I ask a question about the role of
the media and its impact on children and young people. It was
very apparent from the young witnesses we had last week, and we
had this when we were in Manchester when we met their Young People's
Council, that media projects sex morning, noon and night in terms
of the images that they see and yet the overt message about dangers,
responsibility, relationships, does not come out. I have a teenage
daughter who watches Coronation Street, Emmerdale
and Eastenders. Some of the stuff that you see on these
programmes projects quite a worrying picture of society which
I think young people are seeing very much as the norm and perhaps
wanting to get into. That is the message that we have got from
some of the witnesses we have talked to. Do you see that government
has a role in addressing this as a wider issue in the way that
programmes such as Coronation Street and the others portray
life when the life of people is often very different and the apparent
models that are offered to kids are wrong?
(Mr Twigg) I am always very sceptical of politicians
launching in and commenting on these sorts of things. I tend to
think when talking to young people that whilst young people recognise
that there is that, and it clearly shows in your evidence from
Manchester, the majority of young people are actually pretty sussed
and sophisticated about these things and can see through that
and they might just think it makes bad television that that is
the sort of focus that Eastenders or any other programme
has got rather than that they are that powerfully influenced by
it. I think we have a role through education to do the things
that I have talked about, working together with health, but I
would be wary of us saying we want to start looking at the content
of television programmes.
1161. I am not saying that. What I am trying
to say is that we are not getting the other side of the story
across. That was the message we were getting from the young people.
I was struck by the Health Minister's comment earlier on that
if we get the next generation of parents looking at this more
responsibly then that will have an effect in the future. I hope
you are right but my worry is that by then the media influence
will be even more negative on young people, so perhaps we are
going to be a long way behind at each stage the wider influences
that are affecting young people's behaviour.
(Mr Twigg) One of the things that citizenship education
is doing is actually encouraging young people to look very critically
at the role of the media. I remember going to visit Deptford Green
School in Lewisham, which has really pioneered excellent citizenship
education, and one of the things that the young people have been
doing specifically is looking at press coverage, looking at media
coverage, and having a critical input into that. I do think that
is something important that we need to encourage to be happening
more widely.
(Ms Blears) I think this is a priority for the whole
of government, not just for health or for education but for all
of us in trying to build strong communities. That is a big strand
through all of our neighbourhood renewal and regeneration initiatives.
If you look at the correlation between social class and some of
the problems that we have been talking about today, it is very
apparent that people from poorer communities and from some of
our black and minority ethnic communities have got specific difficulties
and specific issues here and, therefore, building those stronger
communities and a framework in which people really feel that they
are valued, that they can make a contribution and make a difference,
I think is how we build a different set of values in our community.
I do also think that role models are important. To do as much
as we can to try and get some of our people helping us with some
of our messages is a legitimate thing for us to do. I am always
very wary not to be the nanny state minister, I do not want to
be that, but on a whole range of public health issues trying to
give people information so they can make the right choices is
absolutely my responsibility. I have got to make sure that they
have got the information, the leaflets, the views, as much access
to that as I possibly can so that the people themselves are empowered
to make some of those different choices and perhaps to resist
some of the pressure that is out there through the media that
they are bombarded with on a day-to-day basis.
(Mr Twigg) Can I say something in defence of the media
because I think some of the soap operas have been very good in
terms of dealing with some of the difficult issues.
(Ms Blears) Yes, they have.
(Mr Twigg) I remember covering the storyline in Brookside
about sexual abuse within the family, which I thought was handled
incredibly sensitively. I think the Colin character in Eastenders
as the first openly gay character in a television programme probably
did more to give confidence to a lot of younger gay men in particular
than anything that we as politicians may think of.
Chairman: I think perhaps the one that I object
to most is Emmerdale which portrays a view of rural Yorkshire
that I certainly do not recognise. There are too many southern
accents in it for a start.
Dr Naysmith: You used to be able to listen to
The Archers but you cannot do that any more.
Chairman
1162. On the issue of last week's evidence,
I had an interesting letter from a lady in either Suffolk or Sussex,
I cannot remember which, somewhere in the South of England, who
had heard the coverage on Today in Parliament and she was
saying that she objected to the strong regional accents that came
over. I could bring the letter along. She made the point that
the Committee did not appear to address the moral framework of
sexual relationships. It has certainly struck me in this inquiry
that we need to be looking very carefully at how we offer education
in the future on relationships within a moral framework because
I have been very worried by the evidence we have received that
there is evidence out there—I never thought I would hear
myself say this—that people do not appear to have any sense
in some instances of sexual responsibility, particularly people
who are infected. Some of the evidence we picked up in Manchester
was very worrying where people were infected and continued to
practise unsafe sex. Do you feel that the government has got a
role here both in terms of the education system and in terms of
the Department of Health? How do you balance that role with not
being nanny state-ish in the way that you described a moment or
two ago?
(Mr Twigg) We certainly do have a role
and it is an important part of our job in education, the job of
schools, and the guidance that was issued in 2000 places great
emphasis on the moral framework in teaching about relationships,
it places central emphasis on marriage, without seeking to be
exclusive about it, and sets out the benefits of marriage to our
society and the stability of our society. I think all of this
work has a very powerful moral underpinning and effective early
sex and relationships education, going back to what we spoke about
earlier on, can bring benefits in terms of the strengthening of
communities that Hazel was talking about. Some of these issues,
whether it be sexual diseases or teenage pregnancies, harm communities
and, as Hazel said, they particularly hit some of the poorest
communities. I think there is a very, very powerful moral dimension
to this that we should not in any way be frightened of. Young
people expect us to have that moral dimension, they do not want
us to be nanny-ish, they want us to give them information, they
want it to be at an appropriate stage. I do not think young people
have a problem at all with us saying that there is a clear moral
character to these issues.
(Ms Blears) I think as well particularly
in the area of HIV in terms of the gay community, we have got
research that shows very clearly that people want to have good
quality information and, therefore, working with the voluntary
sector we are much better able to produce realistic stuff that
is not patronising, that is not nanny-ing, that talks about the
reality and I think that is very important. That is why we work
so closely with the Terrence Higgins Trust, the National Aids
Trust and the CHAPS Programme, which is internationally recognised
as having good quality information. Importantly, part of the counselling
that we do with people in those circumstances is about the dangers
of transmission, about the effect that you can have on other people,
not just your own health but the wider community as well. Getting
time in the system to be able to do that counselling and that
support work is absolutely crucial to that moral framework that
says we do not live just as isolated individuals, all of our actions
have an effect on other people and there is nowhere that that
is more important than in terms of sexually transmitted
infections and making sure that we can trace partners
and provide them with support, that is very important indeed.
Jim Dowd
1163. Going back to the point you mentioned,
Chairman, about men's health, I was very interested in what you
said. I heard a clinician on the radio the other day saying that
most men look after their cars better than they do their own bodies,
so I was very interested in your Haynes Manual approach. We have
had evidence here from somebody who said that most men go to the
GP for their last immunisation jab and the next time they present
themselves is at A&E after their first cardiac arrest. Is
the issue really not getting men to see male doctors or female
doctors but getting men to see doctors of any kind?
(Ms Blears) I think there is a cultural thing that
it is almost a sign of weakness, I suppose, if you go and get
health care. It is about education and I think people coming through
the system realise that it is right to keep a regular check, using
the motoring analogy, to get your MOT on a regular basis and that
keeps you fit and healthy. Probably amongst older men it may be
more of a problem, I think younger men coming through will access
health services more. With the development of NHS Direct, on-line,
kiosks, using technology, in some cases, not all of them, men
would much prefer to get access to a computer or talk to a helpline
than necessarily face-to-face consultations. Providing a variety
of ways in which men can access the health service I think is
something that we do really want to explore and we are increasingly
beginning to do that now.
Chairman: The other point on access that came
over last week was the potential of texting for young people to
access advice. If you have got teenage children they are constantly
on their mobiles.
Sandra Gidley: The mention of computers reminds
me of something that was said last week, that kids in the schools
cannot actually log on to sexual health websites because as soon
as the word "sex" comes up everything is screened.
Chairman: It is the same with the PDVN here,
I have noticed!
Sandra Gidley
1164. Is there some way of looking into that
because I think it is important? If young people are comfortable
with that technology, they may not have a PC at home and I think
it is important that they should be able to do it at school.
(Mr Twigg) I had no idea of that. I will look into
it and I will come back to you and the Committee about it.
Chairman: Are there any further questions? If
not, can I thank both of our witnesses for an excellent session,
we are very, very grateful. I hope the report that will be coming
out in the near future will be of help. Thank you.
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