Evidence before the Committee (Questions
660-679)
WEDNESDAY 10 SEPTEMBER 2003
660. Could you see a situation where a council
might have a problem with it?
(Mr Cavill) I can see where some councils
would. Under those sorts of circumstances one would hope that
the local authority would be helping those people who were professional
walkers to walk more professionally and I think Wandsworth has
tried to do that. I think our point as Petitioners is that this
will not help.
661. I was concerned when you said about the
unevenness of councils to roll out the rules. What evidence have
you got for that?
(Mr Cavill) The evidence is primarily due
to the way in which they license kennels and catteries. The standards
that councils apply from one to another between kennels and catteries
I have not got here but I would be happy to provide a file full
of evidence that some councils who write the licence to put dogs
and cats without ever visiting and charging us and other councils
who do the job essentially well and spend a lot of time making
sure that the kennels and catteries are up to standard.
662. And this applies to the councils that we
are talking about that are in London?
(Mr Cavill) Well, yes, it does. There is a
council in London that issues licences illegally. They issue a
licence for something that does not exist.
663. JOHN ROBERTSON: What council is that?
664. CHAIRMAN: This is not that sort of inquiry!
(Mr Cavill) Chairman, that is the subject
currently of discussions between the Pet Care Trust and the Chartered
Institute of Environmental Health, so I do promise you it is the
case that it is currently being examined by the Institute because
they are concerned about it.
665. JOHN ROBERTSON: But it is just the one council?
(Mr Cavill) At this stage it is just one,
but we suspect that there are more.
666. CHAIRMAN: Could I just make one particular
point. You say that this is really only because there are a few
rogue dog-walkers.
(Mr Cavill) I believe so.
667. I would advance to you that the law of this
land has been devised on the basis that there is always a rogue
somewhere in the system. You have human beings that commit murder,
therefore, you have legislation on murder. It does not apply to
the vast majority of us, but there has to be that protection,
so one might argue on that basis that there needs to be protection
against the rogue dog-walker. Has the idea been explored that
the dog-walkers can walk as many dogs as they like, except that
at any one time they will only have two or three off the lead?
What would your reaction be to that?
(Mr Cavill) My reaction would be that any
way in which you could encourage all dog-walkers, whether professional
or otherwise, to behave professionally and to write a good code
of conduct that would work and then enforce it nationally in a
way that would make sure that it was not needed would be a good
thing.
668. But, as we have already heard, a code of
conduct has been produced already which has not been adhered to,
so if you have legislation which has that written into it, that
action could be taken if there were only two or three dogs allowed
off the lead and the rest have to remain on the lead. I just ask
what your reaction to that would be.
(Mr Cavill) My reaction to that would be very
good.
669. Has that been explored?
(Mr Cavill) It is being explored at the moment.
I am currently writing a series of codes of conduct for various
aspects of the vet industry.
670. But this has not been explored with the
Promoters of this Bill?
(Mr Cavill) No, it has not, that is true.
671. I am ahead of my time then!
(Mr Cavill) Yes, you are.
672. MR MUNDY: I have no questions.
673. JIM SHERIDAN: You are off the leash!
The witness withdrew
MRS CAROLINE ROSEMARY KISKO, Sworn
Examined by MR MUNDY
674. MR MUNDY: You are Caroline Rosemary Kisko?
(Mrs Kisko) Correct.
675. Could you explain your role at the Kennel
Club?
(Mrs Kisko) Yes, I am secretary of the Kennel
Club. I have been involved in the pet care industry for 25 years
and I have worked with the Kennel Club since 1998. I have also
owned dogs all my life. I am a joint owner of boarding kennels
and I know a great deal about packs and pack management as a multiple
dog-owner myself. I also grew up in a dog-knowledgeable household
since both of my parents are vets.
676. Could you please give the Committee a brief
explanation of the role that the Kennel Club plays in this context?
(Mrs Kisko) Yes, certainly. The Kennel Club
has a very wide-ranging remit in relation to dogs. We are there
to protect and promote the dogs' many roles in society and we
provide a broad array of services to customers, including registration
of dogs, the licensing of canine events, the organisation of events,
such as Crufts, the running of the Good Citizen Dog Scheme which
is in fact the largest dog training and human training scheme
for owning dogs and responsible ownership in the UK, and we also
have a charitable trust. The Kennel Club is seen as being the
first port of call on all dog-related issues and sits on parliamentary
groups such as the Associate Parliamentary Group for Animal Welfare.
It also, as David has pointed out, provides the secretariat for
the Dog Legislation Advisory Group which includes the RSPCA, the
NCDL and veterinary organisations and the Group meets to discuss
existing and proposed legislation affecting canines.
677. And as part of that does it make representations
to Parliament?
(Mrs Kisko) Yes.
678. Could you explain to the Committee in summary
the principal points of concern that the Kennel Club has in relation
to clause 14?
(Mrs Kisko) Our concerns focus primarily on
the impact that the proposals might have on the private dog-owner
and how the proposed legislation, whilst it appears to be aimed
particularly at professional dog-walkers, is likely to interfere
with responsible private owners, not just as owners walking their
own dogs and maybe needing to be licensed, but also because the
private owner is in fact a resident of the borough in question,
or may be, and will be affected not only by the fact that a professional
dog-walker might be restricted, but also will see their charges
going up.
679. You also mentioned, I think, a number of
animal welfare issues specifically. Could you explain what they
are?
(Mrs Kisko) As with the Pet Care Trust, we
do believe that there are some serious concerns in terms of the
welfare of dog-owners in that they will not necessarily be walked
as often or as far as at present. If the professional dog-walker,
and here I do agree with the Pet Care Trust, had to keep dogs
on the lead, but was able to keep a certain number of dogs off
the lead, then that would possibly answer the problem, but, on
the other hand, if he is going to be limited as to how many parks
he may walk in, then obviously he is going to find it much more
expensive to actually walk those dogs and will have to pass those
charges on and, therefore, reduce the number of dogs he walks.
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