| Fireworks Bill
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Andrew Selous (South-West Bedfordshire): I wonder whether the hon. Lady can help me with something about which I am still not clear. She talks about noise in relation to guide dogs. I remember referring on Second Reading to the fact that the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals has advised that a 95 dB level should be the acceptable noise level for fireworks. It says that any noise up to 95 dB does not harm animals, but noise over that level is of serious concern. Can the hon. Lady assure me that a 95 dB level will become part of the Bill? It is important to talk about noise in a measurable way, so we know exactly what we are talking about. If she is unable to help me, perhaps the Minister or the hon. Column Number: 7 Member for Hamilton, South may be able to give me further illumination later.Shona McIsaac: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman was gradually directing his question away from me and towards my hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton, South or the Minister. However, he is right to say that there is a serious debate to be had about noise levels, and many hon. Members will agree that noise and decibel levels is the key issue. There is a variety of opinion, but the Department of Trade and Industry must examine the research by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals on noise levels and when noise starts to cause damage.
2.45 pmMr. Paul Truswell (Pudsey): Although I welcome the comments of the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), should we not point him to his Front-Bench colleague, the hon. Member for Blaby, who I recollect referred to the RSPCA document on Second Reading and rubbished the idea of a 95 dB limit? I urge the hon. Gentleman to persuade the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman to adopt the sensible attitude that he has just described. Shona McIsaac: My hon. Friend has adequately demonstrated that there is a debate to be had. Mr. Robathan: Apparently, 95 dB is the equivalent of hearing a book dropped on to a desk from three metres. Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore): A large book. Shona McIsaac: A very large book. Mr. Robathan: Indeed, a very large book. The point is whether Labour Members want to campaign for that, which is their right if they want to do so. We all have enormous sympathy with people such as Derek who lose their guide dog because of such action. However, will the hon. Lady confirm that the action of throwing a firework in the street is currently illegal and that the Bill as drafted will do nothing to prevent such a firework being thrown? Shona McIsaac: I disagree with the hon. Gentleman's interpretation that the Bill will do nothing about the throwing of fireworks, as adequate measures in it come together to do that. It is usually young people who are guilty of that offence, and the Bill addresses that issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton, South will address that point far more eloquently than I can. The hon. Member for Blaby said that 95 dB equalled the noise of a book being dropped from three metres, but we must also consider the levels of background noise. During the day, the book dropping would perhaps not be so disturbing, but in the quiet of the night, it is much more noticeable. We must consider those aspects when the relevant statutory instrument on noise is drafted, take into account the RSPCA research and work in consultation with other noise experts. Mr. Michael Weir (Angus): I do not know about other hon. Members, but I am beginning to get Column Number: 8 distressed about this debate on noise. I do not know whether the hon. Lady agrees, but clause 2 says that fireworks carry the risk of, among other things, causing
which must cover noise as well as physical injury from fireworks. We are getting somewhat sidetracked with the argument about noise, which will have to be dealt with by regulations. Shona McIsaac: That is what I am saying. There will have to be a serious debate at that stage, and it would be remiss of us if we did not mention the issue of noise. Noise combined with distress to animals is the main theme in my postbag and the main focus of everyone who has come to see me about the issue of fireworks. Five or six years ago, the main focus of the debate on fireworks was properly on injuries, but it has moved on because of the recognition of antisocial behaviour related to fireworks—a serious issue in our communities, which must be addressed. Members of the Committee cannot ignore the debate about noise, otherwise we will not address the concerns of our constituents. I talked about the case of Derek Thorpe and his guide dog Warwick, which encapsulates why we are here today, as it shows the distress caused to an animal and the effect that it had on its owner. I carry very large handbags, and have brought a photograph of Warwick to the Committee. It happens to be on a bottle of beer, for which I hope the Committee will forgive me. It is made to raise funds for guide dogs for the blind. Poor old Warwick had to be retired because of fireworks. I shall not open the bottle in case I scare people with the noise. Death, distress or injury to animals and to people, and the destruction of property encapsulate the antisocial behaviour aspect of the misuse of fireworks, and it is important that we approve the clause and get the Bill through Committee today and back to the House of Commons so that, as I hope, it will become law as soon as possible. We can then end the distress and prevent other guide dogs from having to be retired early as a result of thoughtless hooliganism. Huw Irranca-Davies: I, too, welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Benton, and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hamilton, South on getting his private Member's Bill this far. It is recognition of the work that he and the all-party group on fireworks have done. I place on record the work of the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association, which other hon. Members mentioned, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, Age Concern and other organisations that have worked strenuously for many years to bring this issue to the fore in Parliament. I also place on record the 22,000 petitioners from south Wales, the 80,000 petitioners from the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association—I understand that that figure has increased since and could be increased even further in south Wales—and the personal and committed support of various newspapers throughout south Wales, such as the Gazette, the South Wales Evening Post, the Western Mail, and others which have Column Number: 9 committed much time and energy to promote the issue and to encourage people to write letters. About 150 letters have been received, which reflect all the concerns to which subsections (2)(a), (b) and (c) relate: injuries, fright to animals and to the elderly, and the destruction of property.It is worth mentioning the incident that spurred me to take part in the debate. Shortly after being elected in February 2002—long after 5 November—a rocket was propelled through the window of an elderly resident in my constituency whom I knew personally, and broke the window. Thankfully it did not set fire to the curtains, although that has happened in other incidents. That reflects a telephone call that I received from the managing director of what was the largest wholesaler of fireworks in south Wales. I thought that he had rung to berate me for my support for this campaign, only to be told that the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association, the RSPCA and I were absolutely right: things have changed; fireworks are louder, the incidents of misuse on the streets are much more prevalent nowadays, and something must be done. Andrew Selous: The hon. Gentleman talks about the incident in his constituency of a rocket going through a window. Only a couple of months ago, the same thing happened in my constituency in Leighton Buzzard. I referred to that event on Second Reading. Does the hon. Gentleman believe that the Bill, as it goes through Parliament, will stop the sale of the rockets that can be fired as missiles and seriously injure, if not cause a fatality among our constituents? I am not clear about that, and if he cannot assure me, perhaps the Minister or the hon. Member for Hamilton, South can give me further clarification. Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Gentleman is complimentary in holding up for me the prospect of a ministerial position. However, I shall defer to my hon. Friend the Minister to answer the question. There is scope for such deliberations when we discuss the regulations that will follow from the Bill. Mr. Bill Tynan (Hamilton, South): I, too, welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Benton. I expected to kick off the proceedings, but I erred. In analysing each clause of the Bill, we must recognise the importance of noise. I have had many conversations in the past three or four months about how we should deal with it. There is no decibel limit in legislation. Over the past four or five years, a European standard of 120 dB has been discussed. I met representatives of the RSPCA this morning to discuss its ''Quiet Please'' report. It had intended to seek amendments to the Bill that would require it to specify a level lower than 120 dB. Our discussion took place on the basis that, as has been said, I have sought to be consensual and to gain as much support for the Bill as possible, and to pressurise the Minister to ensure that the Bill is relevant to the people whom we represent. It is an enabling Bill that will allow the introduction of statutory instruments based on the needs of our constituents. Noise is an important issue. There is scope in clause 2 to introduce a decibel limit, but that will be done on the basis that we seek to persuade the British Fireworks Association that it can produce quieter Column Number: 10 fireworks and the RSPCA that it can accept higher than 95 dB. To that end, the RSPCA proposes to give a display of quiet fireworks, to which I extend an invitation to every member of the Committee. I hope that we shall be able to see the effect of that demonstration, and that it will involve all parties, including the BFA. Perhaps it could be persuaded to change the construction of fireworks so that they are quieter to use and to watch.
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