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Mr. Ainsworth: The Secretary of State to whom I have referred is the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. As for why the measure has been proposed in an amendment, we consulted local authorities not only about the power but about the fact that they were interested in keeping the moneys collected. It took more time to reach a conclusion on the latter point than on the former one. We can effectively hypothecate the money and use it to as an incentive to the use of the powers.
On the issue of education fixed penalty notices, it is our intention to allow for hypothecation, again by regulation. We must be mindful of the point that the hon. Member for Surrey Heath raised about the degree to which we hypothecate both ring-fenced money and money without restrictions. The hon. Member for Uxbridge also raised that point. Where there are public service agreements and excellent councils, one would wish to offer more flexibility. We decided to deal with issues relating to education through regulation. There is, as is widely recognised, a far greater propensity to hypothecate these days. That is particularly true of recovered assets, which are hypothecated for use against criminal activity. There has been movement in Government thinking in that area. I think that that has to be welcomed.
Amendment agreed to.
Column Number: 391
Clause 50, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 51
Powers of police civilians
Mr. Ainsworth: I beg to move amendment No. 183, in
clause 51, page 38, line 14, leave out 'that subparagraph' and insert 'subparagraph (2)(c)'.
The Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government amendment No. 184.
Mr. Ainsworth: Clause 51 gives powers to community support officers and selected accredited persons to issue fixed penalty notices for graffiti and fly posting. As Members of the Committee know, those members of the extended police family were established under the Police Reform Act 2002. The amendments clarify the references to the relevant provisions of that Act.
Mr. Hawkins: The Minister knows our concern, because we have debated it many times. People would prefer to see more police officers, rather than community support officers. We do not have a problem with the Government amendments, because we understand that community support officers exist and it is sensible that the powers are to be extended to what the Government call police civilians. However, we hope that the Government will listen to us when we debate these matters in other parts of the legislation in due course.
Column Number: 392
Mrs. Brooke: I rise because we have concerns about all fixed penalty notices. The Liberal Democrats are concerned about private employees having such powers, albeit on private land. Will all accredited officers, including Tesco-style police, come under the jurisdiction of the local authority or the police?
Mr. Ainsworth: All accredited schemes must be approved by the local commander. That covers the individuals, and their powers.
Mrs. Brooke: I thank the Minister for his response. We have been over this ground before, but our concerns remain. We would prefer accredited officers to be employed by the local authority and the police through a mechanism that would tie them in. If that were case, we would not have all sorts of people issuing penalty notices. It is generally sensible to make use of community support officers on minor issues, which give so much irritation in the community.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment made: No. 184, in
clause 51, page 38, line 22, leave out 'that subparagraph' and insert 'subparagraph (2)(b)'.-[Mr. Bob Ainsworth.]
Clause 51, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 52 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Further consideration adjourned.-[Mr. Heppell.]
Adjourned accordingly at fifteen minutes past Five o'clock till Thursday 22 May at ten minutes past Nine o'clock.
The following Members attended the Committee:
Cran, Mr. James (Chairman)
Ainsworth, Mr. Bob
Blackman, Liz
Brooke, Mrs.
Clappison, Mr.
Coaker, Vernon
Flint, Caroline
Green, Matthew
Hawkins, Mr.
Heppell, Mr.
McDonagh, Siobhain
McIsaac, Shona
Moffatt, Laura
Paice, Mr.
Randall, Mr.
Taylor, Ms Dari
Wright, David
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