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Mr. David Curry (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Will that put out more fires?
Mr. Raynsford: It would help to put out fires, because sensitivity to the position of a number of ethnic minorities is crucial to fire safety. If people have cooking practices that are potentially dangerous and they are told by people who understand those practices how they can change them, they will be much more likely to respond than they would be to others who do not understand such factors. I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman, who is normally thoughtful and sensitive on these issues, uncharacteristically made a superficial remark on a rather important issue.
We took the recommendations of the Bain report extremely seriously. Last June we published our response in a White Paper entitled "Our Fire and Rescue Service". The White Paper accepted the broad thrust of the recommendations and committed the Government to implementing the reforms. I am pleased to be able to report that we are making good progress in taking the reforms forward. The first draft fire and rescue national framework was issued for consultation on 11 December. Integrated risk management plans, which all fire and rescue authorities are now required to produce, have been published and are out for consultation. The new integrated personal development system is being rolled out with new investment in the Fire Service College to develop a centre of excellence.
Mr. Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con): The Minister is running through the timeline for those various documents. Will he tell us what has happened to the discipline regulations that were apparently to be published in December?
Mr. Raynsford: That is a valid point. We are making progress on many issues, and the speed of progress over
the past year is, to many people, remarkable. Quite recently I was talking to some local authority representatives who expressed concern about the speed of progress and asked whether we could slow down and reduce the pressure for change. I say to the hon. Gentleman, as the Select Committee said, that there is a major agenda that needs to be carried forward with energy. In the past, important proposals for change did not necessarily receive the priority and the sense of energy that they deserved. I give the hon. Gentleman the commitment that we shall be carrying the programme forward. However, he will know that it is an extremely large agenda and that there is a great deal to be done.We are considering a Bill that represents the next stage in modernising the fire and rescue service so that it is better able to save lives and create safer communities. Part 1 deals with the definition of fire and rescue authorities and their structure. It also updates existing powers set out in the 1947 Act that provide for the voluntary and compulsory combination of fire and rescue authorities. Those powers are necessary to underpin the greater collaboration and co-operation between fire and rescue authorities that the Bain report concluded was vital to the effective organisation and delivery of key functions.
As the Opposition appear to be obsessed with the view that the Government are likely to use these powers to impose regionalisation on the fire and rescue service in all parts of the country, it is right that I should put the record straight. The Government are not proposing to regionalise the fire and rescue service, except in regions where voters choose to have an elected regional assembly.
Elsewhere, existing fire and rescue authorities will continue to be responsible for the service.
Mr. John Gummer (Suffolk, Coastal) (Con): I find that very reassuring, except that in the same written answer to me the right hon. Gentleman went on to say that areas that would not have a regional assembly
- "would develop robust regional management arrangements to deliver the functions which are most efficiently and effectively performed at regional level".
- "the benefits of the regional approach"
- "standardisation and pooling of resources and expertise".—[Official Report, 15 January 2004; Vol. 416, c. 862W.]
Mr. Raynsford: The right hon. Gentleman is jumping the gun. I was about to go on to say that greater efficiency and capacity within the service to plan and respond to major national emergencies is critical. Terrorism is obviously very much in our minds. That is why we are rolling out the new dimension programme to ensure that the fire and rescue service is properly equipped and trained to deal with the level and scale of potential threats for which we must be prepared. That requires a regional response. Robust planning and preparation is equally important to deal with other potential emergencies, and also requires region-wide co-operation.
There is real scope for significant efficiency gains in, for example, training and procurement, as well as in the operation of control rooms. That is why we are
expecting all fire and rescue authorities other than London, which is already organised on a region-wide basis, to work together to establish regional management boards. I look forward to the report on progress, which the Local Government Association is co-ordinating. We hope that through voluntary co-operation, regional management boards will tackle the issues that must be addressed at a regional level. The powers in the Bill provide an important reserve to be used only should regional management boards fail to deliver.
Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): The Minister's last remark might help me. He suggests that regional management boards will deal with co-ordination and will not become authorities. In the "Draft Fire and Rescue National Framework" published last December, the Government say that they will ask for a report on progress in each region towards 1 April this year, and that
- "If insufficient progress has been made, the Government will consider the use of its statutory powers to combine Fire and Rescue Authorities and impose regional management structures."
Mr. Raynsford: I am not sure how the passage that the hon. Gentleman read out differs from what I was saying. We hope that there will be progress, which the Local Government Association is co-ordinating, and that through voluntary co-operation, regional management boards will be up and running to tackle the issues that must be dealt with on a regional basis. But if that fails to happen, we could not stand by if there was a lack of adequate organisation to ensure effective response to the threat of terrorism or other emergencies involving regional co-ordination. That is why we have reserve powers to use in the event of a failure of the voluntary co-ordination arrangements. We are encouraging voluntary arrangements. We want to see them succeed and I hope they will.
Mr. Davey: I thank the Minister for giving way a second time. In the document, he imposes a deadline of 1 April this year. At the same time, local fire authorities have to introduce and implement the integrated risk management plans. He can he expect local fire authorities to do everything in the space of two or three months?
Mr. Raynsford: As a classic Liberal Democrat, the hon. Gentleman will argue the case for slowing down on one occasion, and for speed on the next. He knows that there has been enormous pressure—understandable pressure—for us to move quickly. He is well aware of the extent to which the fire service failed over 20 years or more to move forward, despite many well-intentioned reports advocating change. He knows very well that there is strong impetus for change and an expectation that change will be taken forward urgently. He is also well aware that when we are dealing with terrorist threats, there is no justification for delay.
We take all this seriously. We have set tight but realistic timetables. We expect everyone, ourselves included, to work to tight timetables, and we will do so, but as I said, our emphasis is on voluntary co-operation. The powers are to be used only in the event of that voluntary co-operation not succeeding.
Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome my right hon. Friend's reassurance about where the regional element fits in. He knows that we have a successful tri-service emergency call centre in Gloucestershire, with police and the ambulance service. Can he put it on record and assure me that that, too, is a way in which voluntary co-operation can bring efficiency savings and make the most of working on a county basis, notwithstanding the fact that strategically, there are benefits in co-operating regionally?
Mr. Raynsford: I am happy to confirm to my hon. Friend that both the Gloucestershire and the Wiltshire joint control rooms have demonstrated the benefits of cross-service co-operation, and that was taken fully into account by our consultants, Mott MacDonald, when they reviewed progress with control rooms. Their report's conclusions, which we made public just before Christmas, made it clear that they see the future in terms of combined fire authority control rooms on a regional basis, and that obviously poses significant challenges to areas that have moved towards joint service control rooms.
We have said on the record, and I repeat, that we do not intend to disrupt existing arrangements unnecessarily, but we must move forward in a co-ordinated way if we are to combine two developments that must work together. The first is the procurement of the new Firelink radio communications system, which is necessary to ensure interoperability between all the emergency services and all the fire services, and we are commissioning that at the moment. There is clear advantage in making that go hand in hand with the move towards regional control rooms for the fire service. That is why we have set out our prospectus as to how we move forward, and we are currently consulting on that. It has been considered by the practitioners forum, among others, and we will have more to say about that in the future. But I assure my hon. Friend that we are well aware of the significant implications that he has raised this evening.
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