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Mr. Hain: I am not sure that we would want to take up my hon. Friend's. offer of help because I am not sure what kind of help that might be for the Government, but his generosity will be noted.
On the serious issue that he raised, there was the recent case of my constituent, Private Ryan Thomas, who was killed in action in Iraq. I know that individuals in the area pressed that case. There is no tradition in this country of awarding medals for which a prerequisite is the prior death of the recipient. This is a difficult issue and I know that the Secretary of State for Defence will
keep it under constant review because I know of the strong feelings on this matter, about which my hon. Friend rightly reminded the House.
Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): In the last few days, letters have gone out from the Minister for Local Government, Regional Governance and Fire to fire authorities up and down the country. In respect of my own fire authority, the letter announced that next year's funding would be capped at 5 per cent.—and that at a time when it has to meet pay increases of 23 per cent. That could well lead to cuts in personnel, closure of fire stations and a reduction in coverage throughout the country. Given that next week's business is fairly light, would the Leader of the House consider granting Government time to debate that serious issue as a matter of priority?
Mr. Hain: We have no plans to grant Government time to debate that matter. I am doubtful about the hon. Gentleman's 23 per cent. pay increase—I do not recognise that figure—but he can apply for a debate in the usual way if he wishes.
Mr. Martin Salter (Reading, West) (Lab): Will the Leader of the House consider holding a debate on the use and abuse of parliamentary privilege, particularly in view of Conservative Members' disgraceful allegations about the Prime Minister, accusing him of lying to the House and the country? Those are allegations that Lord Hutton has proved to be unfounded, allegations that should never have been made and allegations that should now be withdrawn and apologised for.
Mr. Hain: I would be very enthusiastic about finding time for a debate on those matters and I will certainly look into it. To add to my earlier point, some of the attacks made by the Leader of the Opposition have been despicable and contemptible and ought to be withdrawn. It is one thing to put tough questions and make strong points to the Prime Minister across the Dispatch Box—that is the Opposition's role—but quite another to challenge his integrity and accuse him of lying. I think that the Leader of the Opposition should withdraw those allegations forthwith and, if that does not happen, perhaps there is a case for a sensible debate about the way in which we conduct politics in this country.
Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): May we have an early debate on education in Northern Ireland? The Leader of the House will be aware that the Minister responsible for education in Northern Ireland announced earlier this week the abolition of academic selection and the 11-plus exam from 2008. That runs contrary to the wishes of the population at large and, in the absence of the Northern Ireland Assembly, can the Leader of the House ensure that time is made available for a debate on that very important issue, which affects everyone in Northern Ireland?
Mr. Hain: If the hon. Gentleman is so certain that it runs contrary to the wishes of the population of Northern Ireland, why does he not support going back
to devolution and the establishment of the Northern Ireland Assembly, which the Government are seeking to bring about? I understand that the decision was taken in consultation with the now, as it were, in abeyance education Minister, so it does reflect what the Assembly would have decided to do in any case.
John Cryer (Hornchurch) (Lab): In common with the Leader of the House, I cannot imagine why the Tories have abandoned their call for a two-day debate on the Hutton inquiry—something must have changed. I would like to help Conservative Members by saying that I have some sympathy with the idea of having a two-day debate, which would allow them to tell the House why this morning Conservative Back Benchers were being pushed around the studios to smear Hutton, to attack the Government and to argue—after months of saying that we had to rely on Lord Hutton's integrity—that we can no longer rely on the integrity and judgment of Lord Hutton. It would also allow us to hear why Conservative Members, who were all gung-ho for war, ran in the opposite direction as soon as they spotted the first problem.
Mr. Hain: I agree with my hon. Friend. Having failed to undermine the integrity of the Prime Minister, some Conservatives, with support in the media, are trying to undermine the integrity of the judge, Lord Hutton. That is wholly contemptible. It is extraordinary that while I was on "The World Tonight" on Radio 4 last night, the presenter asked me the question whether the Government had fixed the judge. That was on BBC Radio 4—on a serious programme. I believe that some questions really should be asked in the BBC and in the media about the level of debate if it has reached such a dreadful state. We need a regrouping and a reconsideration to discuss issues properly instead of trying to pretend that everyone in politics, whether in the Opposition or the Government, is a liar. Down that route lies the destruction of democratic debate and, ultimately, of democracy.
Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): Will the Leader of the House tell me and the House when the Government intend to respond to the Procedure Committee's report on "Sessional Orders and Resolutions"? The recommendations are strongly pressed by Mr. Speaker—if he is able to express a view—and by hon. Members on both sides of the House. Similarly, what of another report, which is particularly important to Back-Bench Members—the report on "Procedures for Debates, Private Members' Bills and the Powers of the Speaker"?
Mr. Hain: To be fair, I acknowledge that the hon. Gentleman has raised this matter with me across the Floor before and he has not had the response that he wishes. We are consulting with the Home Office as regards matters affecting the palace and the House. We will try to have a debate and bring a resolution of the matter to the House as soon as we can. There are complex issues at stake, but the hon. Gentleman is entitled to keep pressing me on the matter.
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): I remind the Leader of the House that I spoke against the war on many
occasions and voted against it, and that I am an equally passionate defender of the BBC. However, does my right hon. Friend agree that the prevailing ethos in certain BBC programmes is very undermining of democracy in the sense that there is a massive scepticism about the nature of politics and politicians? Is that not profoundly dangerous for democracy and something that is turning off vast numbers of citizens from politicians? The BBC appears to have a culture of distaste and disdain for politicians and politics.
Mr. Speaker: Order. I take it that the hon. Gentleman wants a debate on that matter.
Mr. Hain: I am not sure that I can promise my hon. Friend a debate on that matter but, for the reasons he gave, I think the House should consider it. It is not a problem that is exclusive to the BBC, though it is at fault. All broadcasters, the whole coverage of politics, the Westminster bubble that we as politicians of the Government and Opposition occupy together with the Westminster lobby—together we are all conducting politics in a way that is turning off voters, listeners, readers and watchers by the million. It is time that we got back to a position in which issues are clearly discussed and differences debated—toughly, yes, but we must get out of the spin that is endemic in the media—
Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): Oh!
Mr. Hain: Absolutely. We must get away from treating every issue as a gaffe, a split or a personality clash. There are tiny nuances of words and the media go chasing off on a new story in their 24-hour news agenda. That is demeaning of politics and, ultimately, it is not in the best interests of the media either.
Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): Let me bring the Leader of the House back from his Westminster bubble to an issue that worries people up and down the land—the Higher Education Bill. Let us think about the Committee stage of the Bill, which will take place shortly. I put it to the Leader of the House that with a majority of only five, it would be right and proper for the views of the House to be fully reflected on that Committee and for the Government to have a majority of only one. If that did not happen, it would bring the Government and Parliament into disrepute and would look like a fix. We would then be going back down the road that the Leader of the House just said he did not want to go down.
Mr. Hain: I take the right hon. Gentleman's point, and the Committee of Selection will wish to bear it in mind, as his colleague the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir Nicholas Winterton) said earlier.
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