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Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): Can the Leader of the House tell me whether his proposals have any implications for the role of the Audit Committee in monitoring and auditing those areas of expenses that he is now touching on?
Mr. Hain: To be honest, I am not sure, but if I can answer the right hon. Gentleman's question before the end of my speech, I will be happy to do so.
As the Standards and Privileges Committee had cause to emphasise last year, it is essential that Members be provided with clear, unambiguous information on what the rules on claiming allowances are. The new Committee would provide a vehicle for doing this. The motion provides that it should be its function to codify and keep under review the provisions of the resolutions of the House relating to the Members' estimate, modifying those provisions where necessary, and it provides for the Committee to report to the House at least once a year with a consolidated and up-to-date statement of the decisions on allowances that the House and the Committee have taken.
Thirdly, establishing the new Committee would reduce the need for minor administrative changes to be taken on the Floor of the House. I am ready to admit that this has advantages for the Government's business managers, but I believe that it also has advantages for the House as a whole.
Some Members may question whether it is right to give the Committee power to vary resolutions of the House. I agree that we should give careful thought before we do this. I point out that the proposed Standing Order contains safeguards. The Committee may modify the rules set by earlier resolutions only in so far as this is
- "in the interests of clarity, consistency, accountability and effective administration, and conformity with current circumstances".
Mr. Hain: I very much agree with the point that the hon. Gentleman has made, very eloquently. I consider that this arrangement gives extra protection to the Speaker, and is a common-sense approach.
Paragraph 4 explicitly excludes the creation of a new form of charge or an increase to any rate of charge or payment. I emphasise that the Committee would not be empowered to create a new form of charge—such as a new expense allowance—on the Members' estimate, or to increase any rate of charge or payment determined by resolution of the House. For example, the Committee could not increase Members' pay. Such matters would have to be a matter for the House, debated on the Floor as we are debating now.
A further safeguard lies in the membership of the Committee. The Committee, like the Commission, will be chaired by the Speaker, and will contain very senior and independent-minded Back Benchers as well as the Leader of the House and shadow Leader of the House. I have no doubt that the Committee would decline to decide on a matter that it thought should properly be decided by the House. It may assist the House if I give some examples of changes that might in future be decided by the Committee.
At present the incidental expenses provision and the additional costs allowance for the allowances year beginning in April are determined by reference to the retail prices index figure for the 12 months ending in March, which is actually published in April-May. That means that we open the allowances year in April not knowing, as Members, the cash limits for the various allowances at our disposal. It would be more sensible to use the retail prices index figure for the previous December, but at present that would require a motion amending an earlier resolution of the House. This would seem to me to be an appropriate matter for the Committee to consider, rather than for the House to be detained by it.
Similarly, it has been proposed that Members who have money left in their incidental expenses provision or staffing allowance at the end of one allowances year should be able to carry some of it forward to the next, and that Members who want, for example, to move office in one allowances year should be able to draw down up to 10 per cent. of the next year's incidental expense provision early. This, too, would seem an appropriate matter for the Committee to consider, and again not a matter to detain us on the Floor of the House.
Mr. Forth: The right hon. Gentleman has said—and I very much approve of it—that the new Committee will
not be able to vary the rates of allowances, but can he give us an assurance that some of the flexibilities that he is mentioning will not involve a higher charge on the taxpayer as a result? I ask that because, although the rates may not be increased, it is possible that carry-overs of the kind that he is describing would increase the overall cost to the taxpayer.
Mr. Hain: That may well be the case, but some of it may be marginal. It happens at the moment—for example, decisions on the allocation of IT equipment. Being very experienced—more experienced than I am in these matters—the right hon. Gentleman will know that many decisions that enlarge the expenditure of the House are not put to the Floor of the House. We are talking about a sensible balance between such decisions and matters of real principle, including Members' pay, which I would agree with the right hon. Gentleman would have an impact on taxpayers' costs and contributions, and which should be fully open to scrutiny and decision on the Floor of the House.
As a further example, while most of us get in our claims within two months of the end of the allowances year, the resolutions allow Members to take up to six months, and this can impede the prompt publication of accounts. The Committee could decide whether the deadline should be brought forward.
On the other hand, a proposal to create a new allowance or increase the rate of an existing allowance would continue to need a resolution of the House. The proposal on the bicycle and mileage allowances falls into this category.
Members may wonder what will be the role of the Speaker's advisory panel under the new arrangements. The panel has proved itself very useful in providing the Speaker with advice on allowances matters, and we all owe thanks to the panel and its chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Mrs. Campbell), for its hard work and good sense. In future, I see it continuing in much the same way, with its valuable advice going primarily to the Members Estimate Committee, rather than directly to the Speaker. I will suggest to the Committee that it invite the Chair of the panel to attend its meetings where appropriate.
I come now to the bicycle and motor cycle mileage allowances. As I have said, this is a matter that would not fall within the competence of the Members Estimate Committee. Those Members who use a bicycle can currently claim just over 7p per mile. This motion would bring the allowance into line with the figure permitted by the Inland Revenue at the relevant time. The figure is currently 20p per mile for bicycle users. It also introduces for the first time a rate for motor cycle users, again tied to the Inland Revenue rate, which is currently 24p per mile.
These changes will apply to Members' mileage, and also to staff and family travel. I can assure hon. Members that, as long as the journey concerned satisfies our own rules and meets the Inland Revenue's criteria for business mileage, these rates will not incur a tax charge.
I hope that the House will agree to tie bicycle and motor cycle mileage allowances to the Inland Revenue rate. I hope also that the House will accept the arguments for a Members Estimate Committee, since I
believe that that would be in the interests of the good governance of the House. This is not a party matter, or a matter for the Government; it is a matter for the House to decide.I have received a note, which may help the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth), and may help me as I read it out. On the question of the implications for the role of the Audit Committee, I am advised by the accounting officer that the proposal might have implications for its role in future, but that this is not an immediate consequence of the motion. I shall be happy to discuss this further to ensure that any concerns that the right hon. Gentleman may have are assuaged.
I commend the motions to the House.
1.35 pm
Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire) (Con): I start by associating myself with the remarks of the Leader of the House about the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mrs. Campbell) and her work, and by mentioning my hon. Friend the Member for West Derbyshire (Mr. McLoughlin), who plays a very important role on her panel—the Speaker's advisory panel.
As the Leader of the House said, the purpose of the motion is that the change to the Members' estimate provisions should introduce new efficiency, improved governance and enhanced accessibility to the Members' estimate.
One of the more important features of the motion is paragraph (3), which talks about codifying and keeping under review the provisions of the resolutions of the House relating to expenditure on the Members' estimate. The problem at present is that many of the resolutions go back to 1945 and that, as my hon. Friend the Member for West Derbyshire said, we have a new system for the more modern resolutions. Therefore, it would be extremely helpful to have one Committee to go through the process of codifying, so that we all have the same system for modest updating of the resolutions. Clearly, issues of importance affecting the rate of charge or payment, or creating new forms of charging, should be brought to the Floor of the House, and I am pleased that the agreement on the motion reflects that in paragraph (4).
It is also more efficient for the House if House of Commons Commission members have the role of deciding these issues, because the commission already deals with the administration estimate, and quite a few of the issues overlap—for example, on information technology. To have the two kinds of governance separate, as they are now, as well as being unfair to Mr. Speaker, makes it difficult for some of the governance and oversight of the administration estimate to take place. Therefore, to bring the two more closely together is a good thing.
I chair the Audit Committee. It certainly seems to be the case at present that the Committee's role is not changed by this. Even now, the Audit Committee looks at some of the work of the internal review service that we have here, which overlaps between the administration estimate and the Members' estimate. Clearly, that is a good thing.
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