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Brian White: During those discussions, best practice often comes forward, and a number of companies are leading the way in bringing forward such improvements ahead of building regulations. Can the Minister make sure that those are taken on board during the consultation process?
Phil Hope: My hon. Friend makes an important point: we need to consult widely when we undertake those discussions. We need to take into account a range of views of stakeholders, both experts and non-experts, in relation to the concerns and fears. We need to test rigorously the impact of such interventions to ensure that unintended consequences do not follow, and that checks and balances exist in the system. Certainly, we ensure that proposals avoid creating unnecessary technical risks. The point was made earlier that these are
standards, with flexibility for designers and builders to apply the building regulations in a common-sense way that works, and that there is variety in the mechanisms for doing so. Finally, we must ensure that the benefits outweigh any additional costs. That is critical, and Members are right to raise those concerns.As most of us would accept, the building regulations have been successful in that regard. They have been developed well, thought through and implemented sensitively, and longer time scales have often been provided for implementation when a burden is clearly being introduced for individuals and developers in the building sector. I want Members to understand that their concerns are being taken fully into account.
Clause 4 concerns the removal of exemptions. Section 4 of the Act currently exempts certain educational establishments and buildings of statutory undertakers, mainly utilities and transport undertakers, from compliance with building regulations. An operational railway station, for instance, is covered by the Act and by regulations.
The exemption for educational establishments can no longer apply owing to changes in education legislation made over the past few years. Its removal would therefore constitute a tidying-up exercise. We feel that the exemption for some buildings or statutory undertakers is now difficult to justify: we see no reason for them not to meet, and be seen to meet, the requirements of current and future regulations, especially those relating to sustainability. All the statutory undertakers are trying to meet the requirements, and many consult building control bodies on how to do so. Removal of the exemptions is unlikely to impose a significant additional burden on them, although we would consult each undertaker before removing an exemption as it applied to that undertaker specifically. We fully support the clause.
Clause 5 requires the Secretary of State to report to Parliament biennially on progress towards sustainability of building stock. There has been great confusion over the cost of this measure, and I hope to clarify matters.
In general, the Government can support subsections (1) to (3), as we accept that Parliament and the public should be kept periodically informed of such progress. Among others, my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon and the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge have suggested that that would create a massive new burden. A clear mechanism already applies to dwellings, but there is no simple registration system for other buildings. However, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has questioned the rating-system statistics. It would like to build what it describes as a non-domestic stock model—a model, not a count. That would avoid the burdens to which hon. Members have referred, and would enable the Government to track reasonably accurately at national level. It is probably the most likely basis of any reporting system. The costs mentioned in the notes accompanying the Bill—£50,000 or so—are, therefore, correct.
I have some doubts about the requirement for the report to deal with "considerations of setting" targets for "specific building types" and "specific technologies". Building regulations set requirements, not targets. We shall need to consider that further, and an amendment may be needed in Committee.
That was the good news about clause 5; I am afraid there is also some bad news. We cannot support the requirement for a statutory report
- "in connection with the Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 2000".
The clause is also defective in assuming that fuel poverty can be eradicated through energy efficiency measures alone. It relates just as much to the incomes of householders and to fuel prices, as was pointed out earlier. We do not think it would make sense to report on only one of those factors, and given that we have accepted the first three subsections, I hope that the hon. Member for Hazel Grove will agree to withdraw this part of the clause.
Clause 6, headed "Proper person", would amend schedule 1 and section 57 of the Building Act 1984. The amendment to the schedule would provide for a new sort of certificate to be given to the building control body by
- "a person of a prescribed class or description".
Currently, the regulations require the person carrying out the work to give a completion notice to the local authority, where it is carrying out the building control function. There is no requirement for the notice to include a declaration of compliance. Where an approved inspector does the building control, there is no requirement for the builder to give a completion notice.
The amendment would allow regulations to require certificates from builders stating that the completed work complied both where the local authority had the building control function and where an approved inspector acted as the building control body. We believe that that could have a salutary affect. It would serve to remind builders and main contractors that it is their responsibility to achieve compliance of completed building work with the technical requirements of the building regulations. They will not be able to shelter behind subcontractors or designers or building control bodies. Builders may have contractual avenues of redress if they have reasonably relied on specialist subcontractors, architects and so forth to reach the conclusion that the project as a whole complies. A requirement for a building certificate, however, could act as a strong incentive to builders to put in place contractual arrangements and quality control processes better calculated to deliver 100 per cent. compliant projects.
Mr. Dismore: I presume that failure to comply properly will lead to the offence of having a false or misleading certificate, and that there is no defence of good faith in respect of the preparation of such a certificate. Is it intended that prosecution will follow
only if the builder has deliberately or recklessly produced such a certificate? If the builder can demonstrate good faith, will it be a defence to a charge under the clause?
Phil Hope: My hon. Friend raises an important point, which we shall have to deal with in more detail in Committee. The penalties for failure to comply are fairly tough. On summary conviction there can be a fine up to the statutory maximum or up to six months in prison, or both. On conviction or indictment, there is the maximum fine again or up to two years in prison, or both. Those are pretty severe penalties, so my hon. Friend makes a good point about the circumstances under which conviction will arise, which we shall have to explore further in Committee.
The Government can support clause 6, but the detail of the wording could be improved. If the Bill receives its Second Reading today, we intend to table some technical amendments. For example, we believe that it would be helpful expressly to provide for the acceptance or rejection of the new-style certificates by the building control body. The regulations could provide for an accepted certificate as evidence of the compliance of the work, and the new-style certificates could be made a requirement wherever a building project is subject to building control. If so, that should mean that clients and other interested parties, such as prospective purchasers, could obtain copies of accepted builders' certificates or check for the existence of such certificates in respect of most regulated building projects. That would provide assurance that the finished project did, in fact, comply with the building regulations.
Mr. Dismore: I am sorry to press my hon. Friend on this issue, but is it intended that such a certificate would add to the rights in civil law of those involved in the construction project, or is it solely for regulatory purposes? In other words, would it give rise to civil rights in itself, or be evidence to support a claim under existing civil laws?
Phil Hope: I hope that my description of how we would like to amend the clause provides some comfort to my hon. Friend, who is obviously concerned about how it will work in practice. My description of how we would like it to operate makes it clear that the measures that the nominated person must take—producing the certificate and developing proof of compliance—are reasonable and take into account the many variables that might affect that action. I understand my hon. Friend's concern and his detailed points about status in law. If we are given sufficient time today, we may consider those detailed points in Committee and see whether we can resolve his concerns.
Clause 7 concerns the energy requirements of buildings. This will sound harsh to the hon. Member for Hazel Grove, but it serves no purpose. It is already possible for local planning authorities to include in development plans policies that would set an expectation for the percentage of total energy in new buildings to come from renewable sources—indeed, some local planning authorities already do so. As the clause is only permissive, it would add nothing to what
is already being done. I must stress that the Government fully support the use of renewable energy sources, but for the reasons that I have mentioned we cannot support the clause, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will agree to withdraw it.Clause 8 concerns the energy efficiency of houses in multiple occupation, and again I must disappoint the hon. Gentleman. Hon. Members know that we propose to establish through the Housing Bill a system of licensing for houses in multiple occupation. Clause 8 seeks to make it a condition of a licence being granted that such houses must have reached a minimum of energy efficiency. The hon. Gentleman mentioned what happened when such measures were pursued in the past. The Government have not pursued the energy efficiency requirements for existing buildings in the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995, because the housing health and safety rating system will achieve similar ends in a more proportionate manner—proportionality is a key idea in today's debate.
I regret to say that the Government find the clause totally unacceptable. We have already heard that many houses that would require a licence are rather old, and many of them could not reach a minimum standard even if it were set at a very low level. The minimum standard would have to be set so low for such buildings to meet it that it would be meaningless in terms of encouraging greater energy efficiency.
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