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Mr. Hilton Dawson (Lancaster and Wyre) (Lab): I am sympathetic to the hon. Gentleman's purposes. One benefit of child trust funds is that they will reinforce young adults' sense of autonomy and responsibility at 18. Does he think that there is a danger, if the new clause applies to a broad range of children with disabilities, that their right to autonomy and responsibility will be infringed? Should that money not be theirs, rather than their families'?

Mr. Cameron: The hon. Gentleman intervened on me once or twice in Committee, and has some good points to make. In response to his specific objection, families should not access the money initially provided by the Government and the interest that it accrues. However, I am trying to come up with something that will help families with disabled children. We should allow them to put more money in and take it out for specific purposes. On the whole, parents want to do what is best for their children, and parents who in many cases spend 24 hours a day looking after disabled children will not raid child trust funds, robbing their children of an opportunity to have that money at 18. They will use it as a safety valve, putting a lot of money in I hope, but occasionally taking it out when they are under huge pressure and there are things that they genuinely need, as I shall explain.

On a related matter, the support that families receive from the national health service and social services is rightly statutory support, mostly unrelated to the means to pay. It is a huge help, but all families with disabled children would agree that it is never enough, and is never going to be. I shall try to explain why. Some services are provided free at the point of use, including most nursing care, most equipment and all medical interventions. Worthwhile as those services are, the family will always want more. If they are looking after a disabled child 24 hours a day, they will get some help from social services, but there will always be times when they find it hard to cope and would like some more. My modest amendments provide one vehicle for families to access that extra help.

The disabled facilities grant is used to pay for modifications to the home such as installing a stair lift or a bath hoist, or changing its configuration to look after a disabled child. Such benefits tend to be means-tested. Families on modest incomes have to pay for such services, but if there was extra money in the child trust fund, they could access it for things for which they are currently means-tested. My proposal would help to provide services that are not means-tested but are by their nature limited, and also services that are means-tested and must be paid for even by those with relatively modest incomes.

Some say that health and social services departments could do all this, but provision for families with disabled children is patchy and likely to remain so. According to its excellent report, the Audit Commission

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"found a lottery of provision. The services that disabled children, young people and their families are offered depend largely on where they live and how hard their parents are able to push."

The situation is unlikely to change overnight, and in many respects it may get worse before it gets better. More disabled children are surviving birth and more are living longer, thankfully, but the things that must be done to look after them, and the costs of that, are increasing.

Even if the situation did change overnight—even if Camelot suddenly arrived—provision would never keep up with demand, because families and individuals always want more. Even if a miracle occurred and every service needed by a disabled child was available, would it not still be better sometimes for parents to have control over the way in which services are provided?

My new clause refers to

"the purchase or hire of equipment".

Although the NHS provides most of the equipment, more may sometimes be needed. The child might spend one or two nights with a parent or grandparent, and on such occasions it would be useful to have an extra wheelchair or standing frame, but the NHS is unlikely to provide two. Then there is

"nursing, night or child care".

In most cases, social services departments struggle to provide the care that is needed, but people will always want more. Kensington social services are very generous to us: three nights a week a fantastic nurse is with us between 7.30 pm and 7.30 the following morning. Nevertheless, to sustain my life in this place and do my work, I must dip into my pocket and buy a bit more care. At night my child is often awake, and may have epileptic seizures. Three nights a week are not enough, so I have to buy more. The same will apply to many parents with disabled children.

Those in the disability sector tell me that "respite" is not a very politically correct word; we have to talk about "short breaks". Short breaks are essential to help families look after their children while keeping up the good work that they do, but the short breaks provided by social services are unlikely ever to be enough for all families in all circumstances. On occasion, people will need more.

In referring to

"specialist medical or palliative service"

I do not want to trespass on new clause 2, but, especially in the case of severely disabled children, an essential operation or form of care may not be available in this country. We often read in the newspapers of families having to go to America to secure an operation that will be very expensive, and trying to raise funds in their communities. What I propose would make that more straightforward.

How have charities responded to new clause 1? In general they have responded positively, but I will deal with some of the objections. Macintyre Care wrote to me

"Your specific points are well made and will improve the Bill, if taken up".

Contact a Family wrote:

"We agree that the proposals will offer significant advantages to some parents."

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It said that life-threatening illnesses

"and the many others which may lead to early death are the main reason that we would support access to the Child Trust Funds prior to age 18."

The Chiltern Centre for Disabled Children, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Johnson), wrote:

"We fully endorse the changes proposed—as you can imagine, we could not be more aware of the additional cost burden on these families, and the difficulty they have in finding and funding the equipment and services they need."

2.15 pm

As for the objections, there are three. The first two come from Mencap, Barnardo's and the Disability Rights Commission. They are concerned about the "early draw-down" of money. They say:

"we are concerned that any flexibilities within access to (or payments into) the Child Trust Fund for disabled children should not result in young disabled people receiving a much reduced sum at age 18 because of early withdrawals."

The second point is, effectively, the one made by the hon. Member for Northavon (Mr. Webb) that social services departments and the NHS might be encouraged to do less if they thought that families would do more.

I discussed the third objection with the Minister this morning. It goes something like this: "If you want a trust fund for disabled children that you can dip into, do not use the child trust funds. There are existing trust funds that can be set up for children that would provide many of the same tax advantages." To argue that there are other trust funds out there, and financial vehicles for children, is really to argue against the whole concept of the Bill. More to the point, the great thing about the child trust funds is that they will be set up for all children. The other funds are extremely complicated. The beauty of my proposal is that because every child will have a fund, my modest amendments in respect of disabled children will provide the ideal vehicle for the investment of more money, while also providing a safety valve to allow some money out.

Mr. Michael Weir (Angus) (SNP): Does not the structure of the child trust funds pose a slight danger? In Committee, we heard much about why they should be equity-based. Is an equity-based fund the right vehicle for money that can be put in and taken out at regular or irregular intervals? The argument about disabled children is sensible, but should there not be a more hybrid fund to allow such withdrawals?

Mr. Cameron: I understand that child trust funds are relatively flexible, and can contain cash, equities or bonds. Unless the relevant amendment was won in Committee, which I do not think it was, I believe that all contributions to the funds must be in cash, but can then be used for different purposes.

I am not suggesting that families of disabled children should dive into the funds on a weekly basis. I see them as a safety valve. When those families are close to breaking point—when they really need extra help because what they are getting from social services and the NHS is not enough—the funds will be there. I hope that they will be able to gain access to cash, but if

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necessary they can sell shares. The shares would attract no capital gains tax, and the dividend income would attract no income tax.

It has been suggested that allowing families to dip into the funds might cause disabled children to receive a smaller trust at 18. There are two answers to that. As I think that I said earlier, I am not suggesting that families should be able to spend the initial Government contribution and the interest accruing on it. I am sure that we could protect that in regulations. I think that the objection misses the point. No two children are likely to receive the same amount; in fact, disabled children are likely to have more because families, communities and friends will contribute more. I believe that parents will behave responsibly, and will only dip in and spend the money when they really have to. Indeed, they will only be able to do that if there is more money in the fund because people have contributed. As I said, my change would tailor child trust funds to the needs of disabled children and their families.

The final objection is that my proposals would encourage local authorities and the NHS to do less and that they would turn round to families with disabled children and say, "Sorry, you cannot have the services because you have got this lovely child trust fund so we won't give you night care or respite care and you can pay for your own equipment." I do not believe that that would happen because social services departments and the NHS have statutory responsibilities. Parents will always want more and child trust funds provide them with the means to get some more. On means-tested services, a child's wealth should clearly never count in a means test—I believe that that is the case—and only the parents' means should be examined. It would be better if measures such as the disabilities facilities grant were not means-tested at all.

Finally, the Financial Secretary made one other point when we discussed the matter outside this House: if families with disabled children were allowed to dip in to the child trust fund, would it put up the cost of administering the fund and would that make life difficult? I have considered that point and do not believe that it is a real objection. People will dip in only if more money has been put into the fund for them to dip in to. If more money were put into the fund, the charges would probably be sustainable because there would be more money in the fund from which to draw a percentage administrative charge.

The more I examine the amendments that I discussed on Second Reading and moved in Committee, the more I think that they have great merit. They have the beauty of simplicity: here is something that we can do that will help families with disabled children to build up a bigger baby bond for their disabled children, who will have great needs throughout their lives. When the need is there—in extremis and as a safety valve—parents should be able to dip in to the fund to make a real difference to the life of their child. I hope that the Financial Secretary will go on being as generous as she has been in entertaining these proposals and examining how we can implement them through regulations or in other ways. This is a real chance to do something positive for families with disabled children, and I am delighted to commend new clause 1 and amendments Nos. 15 and 16 to the House.

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